Graham Allcott 0:05
This is Beyond Busy. The show where we talk productivity, work-life balance, defining happiness and success. All the big questions that relate to work and life and how we manage all of it. My name is Graham Allcott. I'm your host for the show. I'm the author of a book called How to be a Productivity Ninja and I'm the founder of Think Productive. So on this week's show, we're talking to Tameika Isaac Devine. She was the first African American female to be elected to her City Council in Columbia, South Carolina. She's also the mayor Pro Tem in Columbia, South Carolina. And she has you know, really been at the forefront of community leadership through some really difficult times in that state. So, we talked about the removal of the Confederate flag, the Charleston shootings, Black Lives Matter and just some really great perspectives on leadership. And how to make all of this stuff work, you know, family, her job as a as a elected official, her other job as an attorney, and you know all the various different demands that she has placed on a time and how she manages the whole thing together and does so just in such a just a really graceful way just to really integrity about her and really just enjoy the conversation. So let's get straight into it. This was recorded down the line just a few weeks ago. So here's my conversation with Tameika Isaac Devine.
Graham Allcott 1:36
It's a real pleasure to be joined by Tamika Isaac divine today. Welcome to Beyond Busy.
Tameika Isaac Devine 1:42
Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here with you this morning. Well out whenever the time of day. I feel like I've been going a long time now.
Graham Allcott 1:53
So it's 11 in the morning UK time and you're in Columbus, South Carolina, Columbia, South Carolina. So what time is it there?
Tameika Isaac Devine 2:05
We at 6am here
Graham Allcott 2:06
6am. And you were just telling me before we hit record that you you get up even earlier than that, right?
Unknown Speaker 2:12
Yes. In order for me to get all my work done, we're still kind of on semi lockdowns and so I get up about 4.30 so I can get some work done before the kids get up and the day really gets rolling.
Graham Allcott 2:25
Wow. And is that is that a lockdown routine? Or is that a for many years? Kind of routine?
Unknown Speaker 2:32
You know, grim and berries. So it it's for many years when I have like a lot of things to do, it's just morning because my most productive time when it's quiet, I think well, so when I'm in the mode to write a book, or I'm working on a big project, and typically the mornings are when I wake up early, but it's not like every day for for many years. But it's fairly often but During the lockdown, I really had to find a way to, especially when, when it was time for school to be in, found a way to do my work, be able to be present for the kids, and have, you know, some kind of production time for all the other things that I do. So, I went to a normal 430 in the morning schedule. And of course, I get a lot done in the first couple hours of the day when everybody else is asleep, and nobody's saying, Mommy, I want breakfast. So it ends up being a opportunity for me to be more productive for my day.
Graham Allcott 3:36
Yeah, I'm a big believer in early starts. If I'm writing, I'm generally quite, I like I like sleep a lot. And I like I like sleeping in and not getting up until eight or nine. I could quite comfortably do that most days but if I'm working on a book or something and I can set myself alarm and go to bed early and create the conditions for it, then I really swear by that sort of 5am to 9am stint, I think you can get as much done in five to nine. If you play it right as you can in a standard nine to five.
Tameika Isaac Devine 4:15
Exactly.
Graham Allcott 4:16
So let's paint a picture of where you are. So Columbia, South Carolina, and for those people who are listening to this in the UK, who maybe have been to New York or been to California, just tell us a bit about where you are, where you come from the culture there, what it's like to live there.
Tameika Isaac Devine 4:39
Well, yes, well, Columbia, South Carolina is home for me. I grew up here. I did go away to Virginia for college and came right back because I knew I wanted to be home. So South Carolina is in the southeastern part of the United States and Colombia where the capitol of Columbia, South Carolina, so I love Columbia I describe it where we are two hours from the mountains, two hours from the beach, and two hours from Charleston and they're good foods. So we're right in the smack dab centre of South Carolina. And the culture really is a typical southern city. So if anybody has been to Charlotte or Charleston or Savannah, Columbia is very similar to those cities. We are a southern city that we have great hospitality. So you'd never meet a stranger if you're here. And our city particularly our slogan is famously hot, but surprisingly cool. And basically that slogan really stems from we are because we're in the centre of the state. We tend to be pretty humid here in the summers. And so if you visit South Carolina in the summer, it is not unusual to have a span of 100 degree days, and it's pretty hot, but we also have a lot of really Great, cool things with that children's museums and wonderful art museums of great ballet. And so we get a lot of travellers who are in the southeast who come here for our culture.
Graham Allcott 6:11
And I guess part of your role is that you're your representative of the city, right? So, so you have to kind of talk it up and be an ambassador and bring that spirit of the city to life. So we should probably start with that. So you at a very young age, and became the first African American female to serve on the city council. So you were 29. This is back in 2002. And you're still an elected official serving on the city council.
Tameika Isaac Devine 6:50
Yes, I am. And when I first ran for office, I didn't necessarily run for office, like thinking wow, you know, I want to be A politician. It's just like I mentioned, Colombia is home for me and growing up here, and being able to weigh being able to go away for college and, and travel for work and other things, seeing the way the south, particularly in the United States was growing, but have some cities had a lot more to offer to young folks. And at the time, the youngest person, as part of our city representation was our mayor. And he was 50 years old. So for me, then it seemed really, really old. Now the closer I get to 50, it doesn't seem quite as old. But I, you know, I felt like there was nobody who really represented me and my views, and maybe was looking at what Colombia could be like. We always have been a great, great city. But the things that we needed to do to make Colombia more attractive for young people like me, and for people who want to visit our city and so every infer office, I challenged A 16 year incumbent and was successful. And I've been serving ever since. And I have enjoyed being a city council person. It is here in South Carolina, our city representation is a part time, quote, part time job. Although it takes a lot of my time,
Graham Allcott 8:17
I think we'll come on to that.
Tameika Isaac Devine 8:20
That's why I really need schedules and systems to be more productive because it's like I have a whole nother full time job. But you know, but it also is very rewarding because I've been able to see over my 18 years and being able to leave the city and my ideas become reality and really change and transform the city into the culture home that it is right now.
Graham Allcott 8:46
Yeah. So challenging, much older incumbent being women of colour were you 2002's AOC
Tameika Isaac Devine 8:56
you know, I, you know, maybe so I don't know if I have Cause as much trouble as she does bed trouble, but, you know, I certainly was young, and had a lot of great ideas. And folks tell me, you know, she doesn't know what she's talking about. So, you know, from a leadership perspective, yeah, I really was put thrust into a position that I had to prove myself very early, and show that the voters the confidence of the voters have put me to let me was, was very well placed. And that although I might have been younger than everybody else I was struggling with at the time, I was very smart, very knowledgeable and hard worker. And so, you know, obviously I proved my point because 18 years later, I'm still here. I'm serving my fifth term now and I've served three years as the mayor Pro Tem for our city, which basically is like our vice mayor. So when the mayor is not able or not in town, then I stand in for him.
Graham Allcott 10:00
I'm curious to know about in terms of your political career, and a bit more about the beginning and how you see the end. Right. So let's start with the beginning. So you're saying there that you didn't feel like there were people who represented your age group who look like you who were involved in the council at that time? Was there a bit more to it than that in terms of what you wanted to shake up and change and what you wanted to do differently? What was your What was your sort of vision and, and motivation, going into running for office?
Tameika Isaac Devine 10:36
My motivation was the Yes, making sure that I had someone who was representing my demographic was very important. But also someone who could, you know, was not, you know, part of the kind of old boy system, somebody who was not ingrained in politics to the point where they weren't open to new ideas and change And see for me again Columbia's Holloman. So, you know, I grew up here, my dad grew up here. So you know, I remember even growing up my dad telling me, you know, he grew up in a segregated south through, you know, Jim Crow through civil rights. And I remember him telling me that although Colombia was segregated the time and that very thriving black communities in in Colombia, thriving black businesses and how much, you know, the, you know, the progress of desegregation as much as the progress was, you know, I think in in the United States generally, what you also found was because of integration, and the Secretary of Education you found where traditionally the minority communities ended up being disinvested in disinvested in and so, you know, as I ran, I saw that, in reality, I saw the areas that, you know, my grandparents And when I was younger and that my dad talked about where he grew up, it not having the same attention that other areas that were high growth areas for the city. So part of my vision was to be, you know, I'm an at large council member, which means I represent the entire city, I represent the same demographics that the mayor does. And part of my vision was to make sure that every single part of the city felt like they were supported that they were listened to by their members on City Council, and that they had somebody who was really looking for creative ways to bring back investment and programmes. So, you know, that was part of my vision. And although I knew, like I said, I probably was a little naive as a as a young person running for office. Although I knew it wouldn't be easy. I knew that if you didn't have anybody who made it a priority, then it may not actually happen. And so that was part of my vision, and it's really interesting now. 18 years Later, as, of course, there's lots more things I'd love to see happen. But when I look back on the investment that we as a city have made in some of those areas that were traditionally underserved. I am really proud that it's not just me, but we've got a whole council who looks at the entire city. And I think that goes to having somebody in leadership that are constantly talking about, hey, how do we prioritise investment in these areas as well.
Graham Allcott 13:27
I used to work with a lot of young volunteers and young leaders. And I often used to say that when you've got vision combined with naivety, good things happen, right? Because you don't have that, you know, slightly more weathered sense of, but this will be hard and this is difficult. There's something about that, naivety, when you convert it into idealism and motivation that I think is actually a really powerful thing.
Tameika Isaac Devine 13:53
Really well, I definitely believe that and even now, and to your point, that's important. They even when you've kind of been doing something for a certain amount of period of time, you still need that slight bit of a nod to being naive, because I think what it allows you to do is dream bigger, and see what's possible. And so even now, you know, with all the hats that I wear, I know I get people a lot of times saying, well, to make sure you're doing something else. And I am because I continue to see bigger. And I think it's probably because I still keep that little girl in my head that says, It's okay, you can do anything you set your mind to. And once you master something, you know, that means it may be time for you to start something new and, and that's been a really interesting part for me because I see myself doing it, but I also see myself teaching my kids that and they're learning a whole lot about how to, you know, think big dreams and then go after him.
Graham Allcott 14:56
And one thing I also just wanted to pick up on what you said before, so YouTube Your dad's having experience of growing up around, like segregation in segregated communities. And I think probably for for someone in the UK, like I must confess This is probably my own. naivety when it comes to history, but like, I always think of segregation as being a lot longer ago than that. So that's just quite, it's just an really interesting thing to note. So what what were the stories that he was telling you about segregation? And like, what, what was that experience? What is it? What does it practically look like? So is it like certain areas of the city are like, you're only allowed to live there if you're white, or you're only allowed to live there if you're black, but what does it sort of practically look like for for people of your dad's generation there?
Tameika Isaac Devine 15:46
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it looks like they were in there wasn't when he actually was growing up. There weren't particularly neighbourhoods that you could only live there. If you're above Go white, in, in policy or in wall, but there were it was in practice, because if you you know, there were if you didn't make a certain amount of money, and there was no way you were going to live in certain communities. And so the effect really was while he was growing up still segregation. And so He always talks about when he was growing up for schools, they they actually legally were still segregated until he was in high school. And so when he was growing up in south in Colombia, there were actually only two high schools, the black high schools, and then the other high schools were the white high schools. And so
Graham Allcott 16:46
that's what year like, what are we talking?
Tameika Isaac Devine 16:49
He graduated high school in 1967. Wow. Yeah. So this was Yeah, early, early 60s, where you know, you was practically able to go somewhere else. But you know where he lived. It was still this major High School. But it's interesting again, because the reality of it was, like I said, you had areas of town that, although you know, it was predominantly African American because everybody lived there, then of course, everybody supported the businesses there. Everybody looked out for each other's children. It was really more of a great sense of community. And I think most scholars will tell you that one of the unintended effects of immigration in the United States was that once communities were opened up to everybody, you had the African Americans communities that were really close knit and, you know, really a sense of community. You had them more dispersed because people were moving into the suburbs and other areas that traditionally they couldn't go into When that happen, you saw a real disinvestment in the minority communities you saw the lack of, or the sense of community that people had kind of go away and people didn't really know each other. And so it's interesting because if you guys are watching, and I know you are, what's happening, like Ma'am, in the United States, as far as the calls for dismantling systemic racism, and addressing, you know, systemic racism within law enforcement and that kind of stuff, I think you can, all of that is still the result of, I think, segregation and the movement into desegregation. And it being done in a way that didn't affect the culture to the point where people were understanding of different cultures, because people felt like maybe certain laws were being forced on them there. There started to be some animosities. And then I think that it did dismantle the systems that were traditionally set up that oppressed minority communities. And so I think right now, what you see in the United States is the bubbling over of, you know, years and years of that, which, you know, being part of it is one thing, but I'll tell you, Graham, being part of it, as an elected leader, and African American female elected leader is really huge for me right now, because I'm dealing with you know, that systemic racism even within city policies, and how do we address those to the point where our citizens feel respected and feel like their voices are being heard. So that's just a whole nother layer of, of leadership. I've never been led through a lot of times, but leafing through the racial and social unrest right now, is very nice. opening for me and it brings back a lot of those memories and stories that my dad used to tell me.
Graham Allcott 20:04
Yeah. And I suppose also just the proximity to that, right? Like we talked about the shakeout from being one generation ago. You know, and I think sometimes with certainly one of the big stories here in the UK, I don't know if you saw it, but there was a slave owner called Edward Colston, who has several buildings named after him in Bristol. And one of our, I guess, sort of, I don't know, I'm gonna insult people in Bristol, his fifth or sixth biggest city in the UK, if someone's gonna email me now saying no, actually, we're the fourth. But yeah, so Edward Colson there, he's because he was a slave owner and became very wealthy off the back of that he then donated a lot of money to that city. And so there are things like Colston Hall, which they're debating renaming and there's a statue of him, which was torn down by protesters a few weeks ago and was in a very symbolic way. rolling into the harbour and the elected politician there. I think he's the mayor, I think. But he said, you know, the throwing of that statue into the into the harbour is now part of that statues history. Right. And that was just a very big event here but then you think about Edward Colston being from 200 years ago you know, you're talking about literally like your dad, the next generation and so having to be having to sort of untangle that and you know, see a new reality settle down like it's, it's so relatively recent that Yeah, no wonder that involves a lot of, you know, things bubbling up or things not being as they should and so on. That's, you know, it's just a really remarkable thing I think for, for a Brit, sort of watching what's happening across the pond and also what's happening here, and just just to kind of recognise how recently Roar. A lot of that stuff is. But this is also not the first time you've dealt with issues that you've had to lead your city through that have been really turbulent and really traumatic, right. So there is the removal of the Confederate flag. And there's obviously the Charleston church shooting as well. Do you want to talk about some of those events and what that's been like, for you, I suppose maybe there's because they were not happening right now. Maybe there's a bit more like distance and learning that you can take from that. I'd love to just hear your observations on on leading through some of those really turbulent periods, too.
Tameika Isaac Devine 22:45
Yeah, definitely. It's interesting, because again, I'm kind of looking back on my time, you know, especially within the last 10 years, we've had several things to our city, actually. was also hit by it call it 1000 year flood, but it was a major flood event that, you know, only happens every thousand years and and we've lost several residents died during that flood,
Graham Allcott 23:15
just like in 2015. Right?
Tameika Isaac Devine 23:17
Yes. 2015. And it was it was a lot. The schools were closed, of course, a lot of infrastructure was damaged roads and bridges and just having to deal with that, and how do we make sure that we're keeping our citizens safe as well as being able to protect the assets of the city, the infrastructure of things. So that was one and then yes, my confederate flag came down shortly after the Chelsea church shooting. You know, we had demonstrations and protests at that time. And you know, the removal flag and we were in of course, on the national States then. And then the Charleston church shooting is very personal. Because I knew some of your Clemente Pinkney, who was one of the nine who were killed, the pastor of the church. And for me, it's also very unique because the shooter actually grew up in our community, his grandparents, and parents and father lived in my neighbourhood. And so I know members of his family. And so, you know, our community also dealt with, you know, the feeling that, you know, we had a state leader and others gunned down in such a heinous fashion, you know, at the end of a Bible study, but also how pretty much in the shooter was home grown in our community and, you know, what, what creates that kind of anger and malice that you will take someone's life. Typically, you know, basically just because of the colour Their skin. And so our community dealt with that as well. And so leading through those times, it is interesting because, you know, you find yourself as an elected official, a lot of people think, okay, they're solely about policy, they enact policy, they enact laws, and then they make sure they get implemented. It's really not that easy because when you're dealing with trying to affect policy that makes the lives of the citizens that you serve better, you got to deal with the social issues as well. You got to deal with the feelings as well. And and both the top and dealing with now, you know, what created those systems of oppression and racism and hatred, to the point where what can we do to try and react to those dismantle those and so, you know, as a leader, I found myself number one, just really identifying with the pain that the Citizens I represent, dealt with through all those instances, and then feeling like you know, and then showing the leadership on, okay, this is what we can do to move forward as a community, this is what we can do to make things better. And so whether it was, you know, making sure that, you know, as the flag came down, freedom of speech was protected, and folks who believe it needed to stay up, you know, we're be able to protest peacefully, but then at the end of the day, the flag came down with, you know, no violence, no issues, you know, that was part of it. And then the conversations that we as a community had to have after that, as far as, you know, what, you know, what, may dylann roof, you know, the white supremacy was, you know, young ear, most people don't think about it, like you. You mentioned, even from what my father dealt with it with a generation ago, but a generation seems long enough to the point Where you would think that, you know, kids were growing up raising kids in such a diverse society now, you know, I find the young people that I represent a lot more open to, you know, interracial relationships, you know, gay relationships, making sure we're taking care of the environment. I mean, the young people are so open in their thinking, and so to meet and hear of a young person, who was who has racist views, and especially like I mentioned, and it was family, and I don't, that's not what he was taught and raise. So to figure out where does that person get those views and have those things get supported? So our community had to have some real tough conversations about uh, you know, what, what was going on and and how do we make sure that we are having those racial racial reconciliation conversations and, you know, addressing people's pain but also figuring out how to be Create a an environment where tolerance and racial diversity and inclusion are the norm versus, you know, in some areas where it really probably was more of an exception.
Graham Allcott 28:12
Yeah. And when in that in the process of that, would you address your own pain? So obviously, you knew the family of the shooter, you knew one of the victims really well, there's obviously shock, there's grief, there's all kinds of things running through your head at that point. Is it a case of putting all that to one side to do the job? Or is it a case of trying to channel those emotions into the job? Like, what was your sort of? Did you have a kind of strategy about how to manage yourself through that and how to how to how to make it okay for you personally?
Tameika Isaac Devine 28:55
Wow, that's great question. Um, I don't know if I've intentionally had a strategy was just kind of probably more gut instinct, but looking back how I managed that really was, you know that of course the day of and, you know, the days following. were more talking with my husband and my close friends about you know, processing, you know, the loss of our friend, as well as the acknowledging that you know, I as an elected official am as a neighbour represented the family of Mr. roof. And so, I actually remember the day after the shooting going down to Dylan's grandparents house who live very close to me and knocking on the door. And they were like, go away, go away. And it was because I'm psychiatrists to make a and they opened the door when they were both just sobbing and I gave them both a hug and they were like, I'm sorry. You know, we've been being harassed all day. And by the media and other folks. And so they, you know, that's why they had that initial reaction of go away. But, you know, I ended up giving them a hug and talking with them about, you know, the pain that they were feeling. And it was just so initially my thought was, more instinctively it was more, how do I help, you know, I process my thoughts and pains through helping other people process theirs, being honest with, you know, what it meant to me, but also, you know, being a leader and showing that, you know, I've respected you know, these folks and as my constituents, but also as neighbours. And so, over the course of those conversations, I think how I've probably dealt with it was being you know, yes, I'm a city leader, but I'm also a wife and a mom and a community leader. And so I'm going to deal with my pain the way I'm telling you to deal with it by Being honest with it and confronting it and, and talking about solutions. And I think that's really my personality. I'm more action oriented. So even like what we're going through now in our country, I've been talking to folks about okay, but what's the action? Let's deal with what our feelings are. But what's our next steps? What's our action? And I think that has been the way I process it. And it's been good for me, but it's also I think they're good for the leader ship in me that I see how it's evolved, that I've become more of intuitive about the action that we need to take next, instead of just dwelling on where we are right now.
Graham Allcott 31:44
Yeah, problems are just projects that we haven't named yet Right.
Unknown Speaker 31:48
Exactly.
Graham Allcott 31:50
Wow, that's just really struck by that story. If you knocking on the door of the perpetrators family, it's just that's a really powerful In this really powerful image, let's talk about life. Like, quite unbelievably, let's talk about life outside your role as an elected official. So, as well as obviously steering your community through some, some huge things. Just just in in that it's it's classed as a part time role or it's, it's paid as a part time role. So you basically have to have another job outside of that to kind of make the whole thing work. Right.
Tameika Isaac Devine 32:36
Right, right. Yeah. And we, we are paid a whopping $13,000 a year in US dollars. So, yeah, it really is a passion and a commitment to public service. So yes, I have to have another full time job that pays bills and supports my family. Like I made sure I am married some look happy that I have a two You know, to parent income family, but we have three kids, I have a 14 year old, a nine year old and a three year old. And so, you know, and I've got to pay for college for all three. So a time job. I when I first ran for office, and still am a partner in my own law firm, I started my own law firm. The year I ran for office, which is, I know most people like you did what, but I was working for the government at the time and to run for office was a conflict. And so I found myself very quickly thrust in a position to have to make a decision to leave the job that I was in, that was paying really good salary, but would not support my goal to run for office and so actually became an entrepreneur. I started my own law firm in 2001. So that run for office, and so I am this year will be 19 years in practice. And so I have a Partner my own law firm. And that is pretty much my full time nine to five job. But being an elected official, I tend to speak a lot to conferences and so out of that, and then out of my desire to particularly want to motivate or encourage working parents, that sometimes feel like they have that constant pull and struggle with how do I, you know, be successful in my career as well as, you know, be, you know, a very present, you know, parent and have a productive personal life as well. I found myself kind of drawn into a new profession. So about four years ago, I started my own firm, my own consulting, public speaking and coaching firm. And so that is like my other business. I call myself a serial entrepreneur. So my income pretty much comes from my law firm, full time. But also the new business that I've been growing, working primarily with working parents and on work life integration skills and strategies, leadership, but really targeting towards working parents so that they can still have successful careers, but also be parents.
Graham Allcott 35:19
Yeah. So that's the possibilities Institute, right? Correct. Yeah. So now you've got basically these. I was gonna say three roles. It's four roles, isn't it? So you've got the role of parents, three kids is not to be discounted, then you've got the elected official role, then you've got the law firm, and then you've got possibilities Institute, do you at the start of a year or the start of a month or at the start of a day? You know, do you sort of think about what the split of time is between those different roles? Like do you have kind of measures of measures of success for how much or how little time you need to spend on each of those things?
Tameika Isaac Devine 35:57
Definitely. It varies. Of course, it also depends berries about what's going on. So as you could imagine, between you know, COVID-19 and racial social unrest in the city or in a nation, the last couple months have been I've spent a lot more time in my elected role than I probably would have had we not been going through those particular issues. So it kind of it gets driven by circumstances sometimes. But for the most part, yes, I do all of that at the very beginning of the year. I have my goals and I talk about you know, kind of what my productivity measures look like. Whether it is income, whether it is completion of certain projects, you know, so I do that I plan that out at the beginning year, ironically enough, I think most people wouldn't broke up January 1 2020. You know, people call it a year of perfect vision and have like great, great goals. You know, when I look at my what I set out on January 1 2020, No one could have expected that we would have a worldwide pandemic, and, you know, racial and social justice issues. And so a lot of things I've set out then have had to change. So yes, I revisit my goals and my productivity measures every month. Also do it every week. So on Sundays, I'm looking at the week I look at what's on the schedule. And I understand kind of what is expected of me that week, and then I'll, I'll make my, my decision as far as you know, what time I'm going to spend on everything. I am very much I won't say tied to my calendar, but I'm very much directed by things I put on my calendar. Because if I see them on my calendar, then I know it deserves the time that I've said it needs. And so that's kind of how I determine what time I spend on what roles and and that's really, I think the beauty of what I can't work like that. gration is it's all fluid. It can change from day to day, but at least identifying that these are things that need to happen. And these are the goals scored. And these are the measures of success for it. It doesn't matter if it happens at four o'clock in the morning, or five o'clock in the evening, it's going to get done because it's something I've placed on paper and said, I'm going to get done.
Graham Allcott 38:22
Yeah. And squeezing so much stuff in like that. So we took about four different roles. What's the Do you think there's a consequence of that? Like, is there a downside to doing as much as you do?
Tameika Isaac Devine 38:36
Yeah, I mean, I think if you're not careful, the downside, and I think it's, you know, whether it's all the stuff I do or even, you know, fraction of that I think the downside always is burnout. And a certain level of dissatisfaction because you feel overwhelmed or you feel like you failed at something. And that's one of the things that I try and work a lot on with You know, the folks that I work with either my consulting or my coaching practice, because usually when I first talked to folks, they're doing probably almost as much as I am, you know, it might not be in divided between four different roles and might be divided just between, you know, to two roles, you know, parent and, you know, an entrepreneur, or, you know, parent and employee. But, you know, they feel overwhelmed because they still have a lot on their plate. And so I think, the way you combat that downside is, I always tell people giving yourself grace. So, you know, right now, I mentioned to you, you know, today, yes, I'm early, I'm doing some stuff, but I'm going to get more stuff done this morning than most people will get done all day. And then for the rest of the day, I've taken the day off and I'm spending with my kids by the pool. So I think that if you give yourself grace and recognise that you know being productive with the time that you have, you get a whole lot done when you set your mind to, you know, a couple hours of getting things done than you would if you just really kind of don't have a plan for it, and you let it linger on through the course of the day. So I don't have the burnout, but I probably will that I know I used to have. And then No, I probably would have if I didn't really set out my expectations for myself, and you know, for the people around me and be very intentional in the way that I spend my time.
Graham Allcott 40:37
So a couple of things on that. So like thinking about that, setting your mind to it. And I guess it's just a general productivity question, but do you have any particular I don't know rituals or particular sort of rules that you'd like to follow to really help you get your mind on the game and like making sure you are making the most of those hours particularly, I guess, the morning hours because you've got up early, right? You want to make sure that something good comes from it.
Tameika Isaac Devine 41:06
Yeah, definitely. So yeah, ritual wise, every morning. I meditate, pray, you know, I'm, I have a very strong faith and I know that, you know, everything that I have is, is God given and God anointed and so I, you know, I make sure I take my time to pray and spend some time with God in the morning and let him you know, interject as me, but also, you know, help god my day and so I do that no matter what time I wake up, whether it's 430 you know, wake up Tom morning, or it's a, you know, 630 wake up time morning, I'm going to make sure that I have at least 15 to 30 minutes of me time meditating, praying, and that that just really sets the tone for my day. So that's a ritual. Also, a ritual is like, you know, Sometimes when I'm going in the day and things are getting a little bit you know, overwhelming or I feel like I think that jolt in that push, I'm not a caffeine you know coffee drinker type person. And so as some people be like they hit that midday slump and they're like, Oh, I need some coffee or whatever. I don't do that. But what I do is I call I have power song called my power song. And so um, you know, I have a song that will motivate me and kind of push me and I kind of equate it to invite is like an exercise personal runner. I have, you know, I have this running app and when I'm running, if I'm about to go get a hill, there's a button I can press on my thing says power song and that song, energises me and motivates me. So right now, it is a forfeit by Fifth Harmony. But it used to be any Beyonce song. Okay, um, and and and then also So I'm everyone but by Whitney Houston that definitely can get me through the day. So you know, so dad a couple, but having a power song that kind of energises you that even if you're tired, it's gonna get you get your blood pumping. So that's kind of one of my rituals like midday, if I feel like I'm getting a slump, I'll you know, do that. And the last thing I'll just share real quickly is that I'm also I mentioned before about intentionality. After I do my morning meditation, I have affirmations, but not at all my affirmations have I in them is that I will be intentional in everything that I do today. And when I do my schedule, I always tell myself, let your give yourself permission to let your priorities drive your actions. And so I'm very intentional at if it's something that I'm doing the day that it It actually is moving the needle forward on something. That's one of my goals. I don't believe in building a schedule with busy work, or things that really aren't that important. I'm very intentional how I spend my time.
Graham Allcott 44:12
That leads me really nicely on actually see the thing I was going to ask you about, which is, I guess with four roles, the most obvious thing that can be problematic there, or the most obvious hazard to avoid is the fact that all four of them can grow. And all four of them can try and sort of eat up more and more of your time and attention. So how do you how do you define success in those roles? And how do you say no?
Tameika Isaac Devine 44:38
Well, I'll start with a second question. First of all face I know, used to be a challenge for me, it is so easy. Because again, I my internal analysis is, even though this might be a nice thing to do, does it move the needle on some of my goals? You know, is this a good use of my time So for instance, I, as you can imagine, I get asked to be several lots of boards and commissions, I could not have any more boards or commissions placed on my plate. And so you know, but sometimes it's a great cause. And I, you know, someone important to me ask, and I'll but I'll say no, what I will do is say, Hey, I really can't take this home right now. But what are the characteristics that you're looking for for board member? And let me see if I can find someone to fill that role. And I have so many, you know, clients and mentees and other people that I know have great skill sets that want to get more involved in the community want leadership roles? And so I'm able to pair them with that board. And then I can easily say no, so one of the things I found is most people they have guilt around saying no, I take that guilt away by still, you know, being able to help the person connect them with someone else and then I have no guilt and saying no. So saying no has become very easy for me because I've been able to say no, uh, no, but no, but let me connect you with this person, or no, but have you thought of this. And so being saying no has been very easy. And so it keeps me doing the things that align with my priorities, and what's important to me. And then thinking about, you know, the roles growing and what I really try and do, and that's why again, I call it work life integration is, you know, I actually find that all the roles that I have all part of who I am, and they're all very important, and they don't have to independently exist. And so what I mean by that is, my children, they do a lot of things with me. So, when I am speaking at a conference, you know, we the whole family may go, I'm speaking in a conference and then once I'm finished with my role There, then we're having a mini family vacation. Or if I'm hosting a conference, my kids, you'll tend to see them as the hostesses at the door. Or rather than the cashier, my 14 year old, but she's a treasurer. So she, she'll run the cashier, you know, or something like that. So they're very involved in the things that I do and the roles that I have. And twofold. Number one, it teaches them about business about hard work, and what mommy does, and so that when I am when I do have to be away, they get it. They know, my mom is not here. They know why, you know what she's doing, because they see me in action. And so I think it helps develop their skills, but it also helps us understand, you know, the realities that mommy has to go away at some time, but they understand where it is. So they're not like Oh, I wish mommy's home. And so that helps me there. But the other thing in addition to teaching them, it also gives me the ability that Don't feel like I'm dividing my time. I might be at a conference. I'm there as my role as you know, entrepreneur, but I'm also there as my role as mommy.
Graham Allcott 48:09
So when it comes down to the bring your kids to Work Day School, your kids are just like, we've been there done that.
Tameika Isaac Devine 48:18
Yeah, like I said, hurt my feelings a couple of years ago when they had shadow day. And, you know, all these kids were asking, could they shadow me and I asked my 14 I was like, are you gonna come work on me?
Graham Allcott 48:34
So before we finish, we should probably talk about family then. So you've got three kids getting ready and up to start paying the college fees as you're talking about before. And then you've also got this show that you do with your husband Jamie called date night with the divine. So tell us about that.
Tameika Isaac Devine 48:57
Yeah, so daylight with the bands were actually In our second season, and it is a web based show that is on our YouTube page as well as just surprised a little Facebook Live, but it is. So we are we're kind of an anomaly. We are a double Alexa family. My husband was actually chairman of our school board. And, and then but again, that's also a part time job. So he also is president and CEO of his own nonprofit that does housing development. And like I mentioned, because we're both elected officials, but we also are you know, we're very active in the community. And we tend to take our kids a lot of places we would get a lot of feedback for people like you know, having guys do it. You know, we you know, we love your relationship with love your to see you know, all the things that you guys do. And as you can imagine, you know, especially for African American community, having really strong example have strong marriages, strong families, sometimes is not portrayed in the mainstream media as much. And so because we kept getting all these comments, we decided, utilising technology. Why don't we start a web based show? Not just about us. But what we do is we interview other couples about work life balance about, you know, raising a family about being public servants, different things, different topics that we do. And so we have that as a monthly show. And so in addition to all the things that we do, we started bad but it was really just kind of a way to connect with other couples but also a way to highlight great examples of strong marriages and people who are making parenting and careers work for them and in whatever way that looks like. So we have that and yeah, our kids have been a part of that as well. You know, They see all the things that we're doing. And I feel like it teaches them a lot more by seeing us do things than what we could do by just telling them.
Graham Allcott 51:11
So USB is one of the only households where the kids are going. Yeah, Mom and Dad are into this YouTube thing. I don't quite understand it. The other way around.
Tameika Isaac Devine 51:22
Well, it is kind of the other way about is that they get into it. So you know, our oldest will say, you know, this is you should do as far as marketing and this is the kind of hashtags you should use. Nice. People could find it. And then our nine year old is like, this is the way the camera should be. And she likes to think that she's, she's the film she's a producer.
Graham Allcott 51:45
Spielberg
Tameika Isaac Devine 51:48
so many different things that you know if they if it's something they've tagged on to liking it, and I laugh because he died, he rode his bike that she sees a lot of things we do, and she'll emulate it. So at nine years old She's a published author. She has her own book. She has her own t shirt blog. And she does YouTube a little bit, but she likes to be more behind the camera than in front of the camera.
Graham Allcott 52:11
That's role modelling right there. She's already got that, that work ethic and that sort of dynamism that I wonder where she got that from a
Tameika Isaac Devine 52:24
see more than you can tell them so that's really what I want people to know. I mean, it's like when when we get really stressed about work life balance, and you know, we've got to do this and we feel that parent guilt. I don't, I don't have parent get a locking. I don't have parent get I think we all have parent guilt here and there. But the way I address it is because I think that you know, we underestimate what our children are seeing. When they see our hustle. They see us performing well at work and the other things that are important as they see our satisfaction in doing good Work and that teaches them a whole lot. And, you know, that's what we all want. We want to raise really healthy, you know, well rounded kids. And I think the best way you can do that is by doing your best in everything that you do, because you're teaching them a lot by doing that.
Graham Allcott 53:16
And I guess also, speaking for myself as a parent, I think there's probably a lot of stuff where if you're hopeful or fearful, or if you know, you have a particular emotion around something, you can often the instinct is to sort of hide that, that kind of thing from your kids, right, and kind of protect them, but they probably pick up on, you know, a lot more than we realise. Right. And that's a big part of things. So I guess I guess I kind of wanted to finish just with bringing us back to, you know, kind of where we started the conversation around. Being an elected official in one of the Southern States of America right now and and Black Lives Matter and everything that's been happening and I'd love you to just share a hope and a fear. So maybe just a fear of, you know, in terms of describing things that you're seeing there, but also just a hope of what you think this moment might mean in the future.
Unknown Speaker 54:18
Okay, so I think,
Tameika Isaac Devine 54:21
you know, a possible of, I guess, a fear, which I hope is unfounded. But a fear I think, is a convention. So when you know, our country with through, you know, desegregation integration, I think it was done in a manner that probably allowed people to retreat into, you know, their own prejudices and resentment to you know, the transition to the point where I think it really it supported deep seated, hate, hatred and resentment and racism. That, you know, has manifested itself in other ways through this country. And so, one of my fears is that if we don't handle this moment in time, right, you know, whether or not we will, we will get those things again, you know, you hear somebody really extreme groups talking about, you know, another civil war and other things. And I don't think any of that really will happen. But, you know, there's a potential if we don't handle this, right. So that's my fear is that, you know, the people in leadership, the people who are helping progress, the dialogue, do not handle this moment in time, right, to the point that we are addressing the issues in a real, real way, real sustainable way so that we don't, you know, go backwards. I guess that that would be my fear. But the flip side of that is my hope is I feel like This time it's really different. In this country, we have, you know, had other issues of incidents of police brutality, we've had issues like the Charleston, you know, which are have been very horrendous hate crimes that have played out right in front of our eyes. And we went on with our lives after that and didn't make any real changes. This time feels real different. And so what my hope is that, you know, we are at a fork in the road, a turning point in this country and in this nation, I mean, in this, this world, where we will address
Tameika Isaac Devine 56:40
racism, oppression,
Tameika Isaac Devine 56:43
sexism, you know, all of those isms, to the point where, you know, we all want to leave our world better for our children. I'm hopeful that you know, this moment will be a real turning point, and so that I feel comfortable in the bullpen. Cancer growing up in that, you know, that they're not going to deal with some of probably, you know, the issues that I am certainly their their grandparents have dealt with in their lives.
Graham Allcott 57:10
Yeah, I mean, I think it feels like a big moment here too. It feels different. And you're, we're counting on you, you know, you're in a really big position of responsibility there. And leading your community through this moment is a huge responsibility. So there's a lot of people counting on you. And sounds like a lot of experiences that you've had in the past will really stand you in good stead in this moment, as well. So just want to say hugely inspiring to me. It's just been amazing having you on the podcast and then let's just finish with how people can find out more about you and connect with you. I know you do a regular thing around work life integration. So if people want to check that out and learn a bit more from you Where do they go? How do they connect with you?
Tameika Isaac Devine 58:02
Definitely. I'm on all social media with my name to meet the Isaac demand so you can get me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, I'm also on Twitter there I'm at t attabad. So it's the first two initials and the last name so to make as demand on the first three to divide on Twitter, and then people can always go to my website which is a divine life calm at divine is d v as in Victor at in a so a divine life calm. And if you go to my website, you can find out more about my my free tips, my newsletter, even how to you know, connect with me even to sign up for a free call to talk about work life integration. I love doing free strategy sessions with parents to talk about, you know, how do you design your day so that you're doing some things but to get the weekly free tips, all you have to do is go to free tips that a divine life calm. And you will get your free tips work life integration tips that you can tailor to your life and hopefully become more productive and gain more time in your life to live the life that you desire and the life that you deserve.
Graham Allcott 59:16
Amazing. We'll put links to all of that in the show notes, which is it get beyond busy calm so you can go there and springboard off into all those various different links and social media and everything but just to say again, thanks for being on beyond busy and it's still early there, right? So enjoy the rest of your day and some very well earned family downtime later on.
Tameika Isaac Devine 59:41
Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Graham, you do have a great day and enjoy the rest of your summer.
Graham Allcott 59:55
So there you go. Well, a woman really enjoyed that one and was just really struck by just the intensity Have some of those experiences that she's been dealing with and just the skill with which you've navigated through some of those situations. So really enjoyed that one. hope you did too. If you want to find out more you can go to get beyond busy.com. There you'll find the show notes for this episode, along with all the links to all the back issues, the back issues kind of sounds like one of those things that you say about comics in the 1990s or something but all the all the back episodes, previous episodes of the podcast, and if you're also not following me just more widely, then I'm at Graham Allcott, on Instagram and also on Twitter. And if you go to Graham Allcott comm you'll see a form there where you can sign up for my rev up for the week emails. So every Sunday night I just put something in your inbox just to give you a positive thought for the week ahead. So if you're interested in that, it's it really is not salesy at all. I guess at some point I'll probably try and put links into things that I'm doing that I want people to buy. But really, it's for me just about putting some useful content out once a week on a mailing list that I own, and having the deadline to be able to do that. So go to Graham Allcott COMM And you'll find the form to sign up for that. Thanks to mark Stedman, my producer on the show and podiums, our host platform, and also to think productive for hosting the show. So if you're interested in productivity training, coaching, if you want to find out more about how to get your inbox to zero or become a productivity Ninja, then go to think productive COMM And you'll find out more there. So that's it for this week. We're actually going to start from September, we're going to go weekly with the podcast. So you hopefully you've been subscribed and enjoying these two weekly episodes, and we're actually going to go weekly. So I hope hopefully, that is good news that you have more in your inbox. I know they're quite long. So some of you might take two weeks to consume the whole app. Episode I don't know. But we're going to go weekly, we're going to throw more stuff at you from September. And as always, if you have recommendations for particular guests you'd like to see I've had some really good recommendations actually in the last few weeks. And some of those are actually starting to filter through as episodes that are coming up. So if you want to drop me a line, you want to say hi, it's just Graham at think productive dot code at UK. I'd love to hear from you. We'll be back in a couple of weeks time starting with our September weekly podcast onslaught. So until then, enjoy what's after the summer. Take care and bye for now.
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