Leadership Lessons from a Life at NIKE with Greg Hoffman
Graham Allcott 0:06
My guest today is Greg Hoffman, Greg spent many years in one of the coolest jobs in the world as Chief Marketing Officer for Nike. He's also the author of a new book about his experiences in motion by design. In this episode, we talked about some of the marketing campaigns that took Nike to another level, the importance of emotion and empathy in business, why diversity increases productivity. And at the end, he shares a bit about finding his birth parents just last year. This is Greg Hoffman. So Greg Hoffman, welcome to be on busy. How are you?
Greg Hoffman 1:25
I'm doing well. Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.
Graham Allcott 1:29
And we were just talking off air that you're, I'm catching you the day before your business, launch your book launches in the US and then obviously, is going to launch in the UK shortly after that. So I guess you are pretty busy right now.
Greg Hoffman 1:43
That's right. But it's a good kind of busy, right. So keeps you energised, and I couldn't be more happy to share these thoughts and this methodology with the world.
Graham Allcott 1:54
Yeah, fantastic. Well, then, I said the book is called emotion by design. So if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll you'll get a little picture of the book cover there. So emotion by design Creative Leadership Lessons from a lifetime at Nike. So I'm in I'm in the UK. So my first question is, is it is a really frivolous first question. Right. Which is, is it wrong to say Naik, because I grew up calling it Nike? Am I wrong? It is
Greg Hoffman 2:20
Nike. But at some point, a brand belongs to the people. So how you used to say it is up to you. And I think that's perfectly fine. And I'm not going to stand in the way, though.
Graham Allcott 2:33
I do. You know, part of the reason I wanted to ask you that question is that just having having read the book, I actually thought you might have something really interesting to say about it, rather than just saying no. Yeah, just because I think there is.
Greg Hoffman 2:46
Truth is, as kids growing up in, I don't want to date myself, but I will. Certainly in the late 70s, early 80s. In the US, a lot of people said not.
Graham Allcott 2:57
Okay, yeah. So there you go. One of the reasons it's interesting is that you talk a lot in the book about the emotional connection that brands have. And so with Nike, I mean, it felt really romantic, that first part of the book where you're talking about your own first interactions with the brand, and then that kind of realisation that there was something really, really creative in the design process of of those ads. Do you want to just tell us that story of how did you first come across Nike as a brand, and then that first opportunity to get involved and actually work for the company?
Greg Hoffman 3:38
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as a kid having two dominant passions, you know, art and sport, at that point in my life, and so obviously, when I saw this brand able to intersect these two passions, it was a revelation for me. And so, really, it started first with product. You know, my first Nike shoe was an Air Force One high that I had as a freshman in high school, but really, when I started to feel these, you know, back to this idea of stirring emotion, you know, in terms of how the brand tells stories, it was really the 1984 Olympics. I was a huge, I was a long jumper. So I was a huge Carl Lewis fan at the time. And here was this brand doing this. I love LA commercial because it was the LA Olympics. And here's Randy Newman, the singer driving around in a convertible. And as he's going through town, he's seen you know, Carl Lewis is coming out of frame and into the frame jumping onto the sand in Santa Monica, you have other athletes, and I was just blown away. And that was really that start of, okay, this is something greater than just products, right? This is kind of a state of mind, or a way one way live their life, right. And this is even before just do it. So that was kind of that early point. And then obviously, the introduction of just do it in in 1988. You know, with de Bono's ad, Bo Jackson playing multiple sports that just sealed the deal for me. And then finally, you know, in college, I had the Michael Jordan wings poster on my wall, right with his arms outstretched, and a William Blake quote underneath that said, you know, no bird soars too high if they soar with their own wings. So that's quite powerful. But I'll have you know, even a year before I arrived at Nike, I didn't even know that Nike was in Portland, Oregon. You know, I'm growing up in the middle of America in Minnesota. So that I had grasp the concept of how a brand can play a deeper role in a person's life. But I didn't put it together that there was an actual department working together to create these emotions. Right. So just a little background on that journey.
Graham Allcott 6:10
And like when he first got there, so you talk about the year was 1992. And it's an interesting era for me because it's probably like the first area that I really remember. You know, kind of watching sports. So you had like the Summer Olympics with the Dream Team. You had Andre Agassi Wimbledon and there was the like this huge I remember really vividly the the controversy that happened the year before when Andre Agassi was at Wimbledon, and he was wearing too many colours on his outfits and the Wimbledon hierarchy were trying to make him wear all white. So the next year what does he do like turns up in complete all white with just the the Nike logo on so like it was it was a really, and then there's a Derek Redmond story, which maybe you can tell, but it was like it was a really incredible sort of period of time, that kind of early 90s era in terms of just what was going on in music and fashion and sport, like, everything seemed to be very exciting at that time.
Greg Hoffman 7:08
No question. Absolutely. It was a summer of sport to remember. And for someone like myself, who had such a big affinity for Michael Jordan, and the fact that not only did he win the NBA championship that summer against, you know, the Portland Trailblazers, you know, a beloved team of the city that I was going to work at. And then to follow that up for the first time professional, NBA athletes could play in the Olympics, which essentially was the formation of the first dream team. And you know, I have a, I have a chapter later on in the book about creating a creative Dream Team, right. But really kind of comes from that idea of bringing together the best players in the world onto one team, and how do you create the type of chemistry that's needed to create great work and great wins, but, you know, so yes, it was just a magical summer and certainly, that swoosh you know, seeing it for the first time on a cap that Agassi was, was wearing. You know, actually, a couple years later would lead to the brand, making the decision to go swoosh only as its brand trademark, because up until that time, it was only on product that you saw this swoosh. But in communication and in the stores, and on posters, it was still the swoosh with Nike feature a bold typeface above it that said Nike. So just a quick story there in terms of how a brand transitioned and simplified it's brand, the core of its brand identity. And the rest is history from there.
Graham Allcott 9:02
Yeah, and just ask a little follow up to that. So the thing with Derek Redmond feels quite similar. Do you want to just tell the story of Derek Redmond for those that don't remember?
Greg Hoffman 9:12
Yeah, it's just uh, you know, the embodiment of of just do it to me and Derek Redmond was a sprinter and he was actually not a Nike athlete. Right. But Derek Redmond as he turned the corner, in his race in front of millions of people, you know, around the world watching this. He pulled up and I believe he pulled his hamstring, if I recall, and at first kind of came to a stop, just a slight walk, but his father came out of the stance and his father was actually wearing a JUST DO IT cap and came up to him, put his arm around on his shoulder, and walked him all the way to the finish line. And it's one of those moments that brings tears to your eyes. Because there's, you can feel, the journey that the athletes taken, and how that's in some ways taken away from him. But at the same time, between the two of them, they're giving so much to the world in that moment, right? You talk about this idea of empathy. And it's brought to life before your very eyes. And it was just one of those unique moments that just reinforced the idea of defying convention, and just doing it no matter what the circumstances, you know. So, yeah, it really stands out for me as as a natural moment that happened, that that captivated a lot of attention at the time.
Graham Allcott 10:56
Yeah, and I suppose my curiosity with that was, so there's that moment, there's the Agassi thing, which, you know, again, in some ways kind of feels like this, just this, this moment, that just happens. And it sort of captures the imagination. And like, that one obviously feels a bit more design than Derek Redmond. But there's, there's an element of kind of accident to all of it isn't, though, where you have to work out and see which things are going to really strike people at the heart and which things are not so like, would you say that part of the creative process is to just do lots of those things and see what sticks? Or is there like a bit more of a science to, to, you know, how to engineer those kind of moments that are going to really create connection?
Greg Hoffman 11:38
Well, I think you it's yes, does the, you know, there's moments that are not in your control, obviously, that are and sometimes we call those happy accidents. But as a team and an individual, you have to be prepared for those moments as well. And you have to have the level of curiosity, and, you know, vision for what's happening in the outside world. So that, when that moment happens, you're you're ready to leverage that. And actor, this idea of sport, there is there's always a calendar of sport moments that's happening. And so part of part of creativity is, you know, to your point, planning for those moments and planning for a win, don't wait for the win to happen, right, because that is not a recipe for success. And so oftentimes, I certainly with the teams that I had the privilege of leading, we would create bodies of work, and essentially, you're predicting how certain events and moments might happen. Or when someone might become the leading goal scorer, or when another team might advance to the next round of a particular tournament. So you know, you can't be complacent. Complacency is the enemy of creativity, in my opinion. And as soon as we, we stop being curious and start getting comfortable, your creativity starts to atrophy. And so I think that's very important for creatives. And marketers of all ages to, to continue to find ways to keep themselves energised and motivated in a world that, quite frankly, is moving far faster now than it was, to your point back in 1992.
Graham Allcott 13:41
Yeah, absolutely. It's funny isn't just to sort of think back now to, to all the other things in terms of, you know, what the world looked like around those sporting events, compared to you know, the next World Cup. Let's think about some of the lessons from the book then. So one of the ones that really struck me, and partly because I'm writing this book about kindness and leadership at the moment, was around empathy. And there's a lovely line in the book where you say, the first element of every inspiring idea comes from empathy. What did you mean by that?
Greg Hoffman 14:16
Well, if you think about whether you're designing a product, or whether you're concepting, a campaign or a piece of communication or a story, it's only going to be as strong as the insight or truth that you start with. And when you start a process, you're you're only going off of assumptions and observations, right? Basically what everyone else already sees. And that's why when I think of empathy, you know, the principle I like to use is this idea of see what others see, find what others don't. And I think creative people inherently have this gift because it's part of the creative process. So at the beginning are you digging deep? Are you peeling back the layers to get to something that's quite sharp as an insight and revealing that so then the process becomes how do you reveal that in the most profound way to move people. And I'll give you a quick example that I think would really, that a lot of the listeners could relate to. There was a pretty historic Nike campaign that again, I had the privilege of working on, which was find your greatness, back in 2012, for the London Olympics is when that launched, and imagine how powerful it was when we kick that process off, when a creative director from the agency wine and Kennedy came into the room and said, Did you know that there are 25 Other cities and towns around the world called London. And within those bounds, large and small, there's other people having their own Olympics, and trying to achieve their potential as athletes and reach their dreams. That's quite powerful as a creative team, when someone started with empathy went deep, did the research was curious, and kind of not only, it's like, if you keep that to yourself, then you're not lifting the entire team. So I think the other part of empathy is not only with your subject, whether it's an individual, a community, or a city, but also for your own team, in terms of how you share and inspire them. And when you get an entire team exercises, exercise and, and strengthening their empathy. I think the creative output is just has has so much more potential.
Graham Allcott 16:51
Yeah, and there's something else that you said as well, in the book, which I didn't write down. So I'm going to attempt to paraphrase, but it's something like, don't try and tell the story of the brand about the brand, but use the brand to tell a story about the person who's consuming the brand. So that feels like a really important part of Nike success, right is like, it leads people to feel inspired about themselves, and to express their sort of ownership of the brand in a really different way, which is why it becomes this huge thing for, you know, music culture, as well as just in sport, and so on. Like, that feels like a really hard thing to do, though. So like, how did that? Can you tell? Tell a bit more of a story about how did that approach start at Nike? And also like, for someone listening to this, you know, even if you don't work in marketing, like how can you kind of use some of those techniques to to really benefit your own work?
Greg Hoffman 17:47
It's, it's a great question and great point, you know, and I have no problem admitting because that the early parts of my career, and oftentimes when you think of branding, and brand management, so much of it is about how you want the consumer in the audience, to feel about your brand. Right? In some ways, it's very one way you're trying to create an impression in their mind, of your brand and your brand image. But I think the great brands, the ones that truly transcend kind of move into a place where they spend just as much time thinking about how they want people to feel about themselves when they interact with your brand. And in turn their ability to feel empowered to reach their dreams and potential. And so, if you as a team, I don't care if you're a business of six people, or 600, if you can make that transition. And it really kind of moves you from kind of being, you know, marketing to serving. And this idea of, of being with people for the long term, not just for the moment, right? Like you're a brand that is about progression, you know, this idea of, we're gonna we're here to have a relationship and help you on your journey, just like we help athletes on the pitch or the track or the court. So I think part of it, Graham is is it always starts with the mindset, how are we playing the game, and we're going to be, we're certainly going to spend time shaping the brand and ways that you know, you know, position our brand in the world within our category in a way that's distinct and create separation from the competition. We know that that's a dominant part of what branding is at the same time. You back to this idea of emotion by design, you have to stir those levels of emotion. emotion and resonate in a deeper way in people's lives. So you can help them and empower them more so than just being in a relationship that, quite frankly, is transaction airy. And
Graham Allcott 20:13
I guess it's sort of the it's the hero's journey, equivalent thing of your Yoda, not Luke Skywalker, right? Like you're there as the guide to show them what they're doing, rather than to be the hero the whole time.
Greg Hoffman 20:26
That is correct. And it's, it's, it's a, again, it's a conversation, it's not a broadcast. And, and, and even better when you get to a point where it's, it's not only a conversation between the brand and the audience, but the audience, then it can because as I said, in the book, you know, at some point, the stories you tell no longer belong only to you, as a brand, they get passed down and into culture, if you will, and reinterpreted for every generation. And I think that's the beauty of just do it, just do it. It's rare, that not only a slogan, but a way of communicating just do it through stories, and advertising over the years has appeal to multiple generations. It's almost this, you know, obviously sport like music has the power to unify people, you know, no matter how different they are. And I think the way that just do it is brought into the world every single year. accomplishes that in a very inspiring way. Hmm,
Graham Allcott 21:48
absolutely. Yeah, just kind of thinking in my head about my own company. And some of the ways that we can employ some of those those techniques in our own marketing. There's quite a lot in the book that really speaks to sort of lessons around leadership, rather than just around branding. So I just love to talk about some of those. And I love the bit where you talk about you sort of allude to the apple, Here's to the crazy ones campaign. And talk about the real need for having surrounding yourself with visionaries making it okay for visionaries to be part of your culture, but then there's this bit that sort of counters it which says, Let the quiet ones speak the loudest and just talk about that?
Greg Hoffman 22:37
Well, yeah, you know, and, and certainly, when I, my retirement speech, if you will, at Nike two years ago, I what I asked, the folks that were gathered in the room is to to, really three communities that I had an affinity for, but I also saw myself within those groups, you know, the first of course, is those those daydreamers, if you know, the right brain thinkers, and the second group are the quiet ones, the introverts who oftentimes get excluded, because they're not exercising their voice loud enough in a moment. And my point to the group, is that oftentimes, you're you're missing out on the stories that they have to tell. And you're talking about individuals that oftentimes want some time to process, what they're hearing, in certainly in the creative arena, imagine the power of allowing individuals the time to go back, think about what they heard, synthesise that, and come back in a way sometimes being able to visualise that and and surprise, the the greater team and organisation in a way that creates momentum and delivers new innovation and new ideas. But oftentimes, they're excluded or ignored, because just having a loud voice doesn't mean it's right. Okay. And I just think oftentimes, brands are missing out. When, oftentimes, the day dreamers are a bit difficult to work with. Oftentimes, introverts are a little bit hard to interpret, right? Like, are you in the game or not? They just might be a little bit uncomfortable, right? And then, of course, diverse voices, and those that quite frankly, have had numerous barriers or bias to work through to be in the room. But yeah, I mean, look, it took a long time for me over the years to find my voice because so much of my early career was speaking through my work. Right and and that's how was how was able to contribute. And it was only when I started to manage teams and those teams grew, I really had to figure out how I was going to still stay true to who I was, you know? And at the same time, because oftentimes you're working with in a highly competitive business environment, right? You're working around extroverts, right, who it comes very easy to speak in the moment. And, and so, I would say to anybody, it's a journey, and you need to, it's something that requires commitment and work, but you should never, you know, be someone you're not. Right. And so it does take a management team, though, to recognise the power of the quiet voices. Certainly, in the field of innovation and creativity, you are leaving a massive business advantage on the table, if you're not taking advantage of those voices.
Graham Allcott 26:02
Yeah, and like you say, it's also the introverts are often the ones who are the reflective thinkers. And so they're the ones who they go away and they distil everything, and then they, they come back and reflect it back to you in maybe a different way. And that requires, like you've got, you've got to listen and more proactively listen. But also, it requires a bit more time as well, right? Because you know, you need that time to reflect and in an organisation that's loud and fast paced, like, how do you do that? What did you learn in terms of managing people that allowed you to, you know, to really not leave those talents on the table?
Greg Hoffman 26:41
Yeah, well, one of the things I had, since I got to Nike, I believed in this idea of just like with sports, I think the most dominant teams have two traits that are really prevalent within their offence, and it's speed and agility, the agility part, we talked about, right, anticipating what might happen, and being able to change direction in the moment and deliver that win, if you will. The speed is this idea of being able to visualise and prototype ideas with great speed. And now more than ever, that's really important considering how fast everything is moving. And so early on myself and the teams, I lead. Our role in a lot of those meetings was to take what we heard, but come back, because how many times have you been in a conversation and said, you know, that idea, we talked about three months ago, whatever happened to that? And people say, oh, you know, I'm not sure it's like, I guess, we got too busy. And then a year later, someone's like, Well, what happened to that idea? So I want to eliminate that. Right? And so our role oftentimes, was to participate in those conversations. But go back, visualise the end in mind, what's that vision look, like? Come back to the team, and create this kind of vivid expression of what was discussed. And then, and then prototype it, take it to market and test it. And so over time, then what starts to happen is those invitations by the teammates start coming more frequently. Because everyone sees the power of okay, I get it, I see that there's certain individuals that need to just soak up what's going on in the moment, they go back, reflect on that, as you said, and then use the power of design thinking and creativity to come back. And rally, everybody is quite powerful. That's why I have that kind of that principle of what's the movie poster of the idea? Because if you think of a movie poster, you know, you need to get the concept. It needs to hook you in that moment. And so oftentimes, that's that's what we're trying to do. And what it did is it shifted the culture of recognising that a lot of folks just process information in a different way, maybe at a different speed, but are equally, if not more important within the process of, you know, building new ideas and taking them to market. So that's just kind of one way teams can think about how to how to unlock those those different communities within your brand.
Graham Allcott 29:46
Hmm. And just to just develop that idea around managing teams and leading teams, so you touched on diversity a few minutes ago, and so, just wanted to talk about that. So you took in the book about the idea of diversity is oxygen. And I know you had a lot of very leading roles within Nike in terms of advising the black community of workers within Nike as well. So you want to just start with sort of ask a couple of questions on that theme. Let's just start with just diversity in general, what do you think is the main, you know, kind of benefit of diversity? Like why why do you see that diversity is oxygen,
Greg Hoffman 30:28
different life experiences and perspectives in the room coming together has a greater probability of leading to something that is not only unique to the market conceptually, but will ultimately provide access and opportunity to communities that, quite frankly, don't have that access. And so it works both ways. Not only do you have a greater Trent chance of having the type of dialogue and conversation and teamwork between individuals within a diverse team, but you have a greater chance of broadening the consumers and the audience that you serve. So it's also a huge business advantage, because it leads to business growth. And, you know, for me, as as someone who grew up as mixed race, you know, half black half white, I was also adopted into a white family. And I grew up in a white school system and had quite a bit of adversity within that. But what it did do is it it, it just motivated me to use my platform and position at any point within my career, to help those that maybe had the same experience. And make sure that, you know, the teams that I lead, were a mere are a reflection of the audience's that we were either serving or we needed to serve and provide access to.
Graham Allcott 32:06
Yeah, and I suppose that's the thing, isn't it? When you so I'm a passionate believer in in diversity, just from a, just from the point of view of that's the right thing to do, and social justice. But also, when you think about it from the point of view of the results that you get, it's like, like, I read a really interesting thing with Warren Buffett talking about feminism a few years ago, where he basically said, you know, we've got, you know, good feminism is actually about saying, well, let's utilise all the best skills that we have. And if you if you're not actually involving women in some of the top leadership positions, where you've just got 50% of the population not contributing as much as they could do, and that's just not good business, that sort of thing. So I think there's something really, something really important in in making that argument isn't there to say that actually, it's, it is important for social justice, but it's also really good for creativity and productivity and getting results.
Greg Hoffman 33:06
You're exactly right. And that's why it was really important for me to actually show versus just tell to ensure that I was using my own journey, and my own outlook at the world. But also demonstrate it through some iconic campaigns, products and, and experiences. Because oftentimes, diversity is just looked at, by the numbers, right. And you could have a diverse team, but you haven't unlocked the potential of that team. Because the whole point is to this idea of what I call living the personal in the professional, allowing the individual experience and perspective of those diverse individuals to to come out with in the business and brand and creative process, right. And that's where you see some of those examples of the type of work that it leads to. And the type of impact it not only has in people's lives, but also in culture. And that's that idea of, you know, being able to spark a movement, right, and, and have the type of meaning in culture and in people's lives where they feel they want to collectively come together to change the world for the better.
Graham Allcott 34:38
And you talk early on in the book about the culture at Nike. And the three words that uses collaboration, inclusion and creativity. And it feels like all of those in their own ways are really important for what we're talking about. So what are some of the ways that Nike would build that culture like what are some of the particular things that if You're a manager working in a really different organisation, what can you learn from how Nike does collaboration and inclusion and creativity?
Greg Hoffman 35:08
Well, I like I talk a lot about this idea of, of breaking people out of their silos, I think it's really, really important. And even if you're you, you just try this as a project is to get everyone to, in some ways, virtually or physically sit together, regardless of what their department or division is responsible for. And I do use an example in the book and one I used with my team many, many, many times, is the example of FC Barcelona and their approach to football with this idea of tiki taka. And if you think about that, it's it's pretty amazing. And, you know, it's this idea of, of a lot of these short passes, you know, first being unselfish and passing the ball as a, as a teammate. And at the same time, making sure you're always moving in, in position, with with everyone else. And I think that's where we had a lot of success in this idea of radical creative collaboration, where everyone is aware of what their position is. But you know, they also have the opportunity to there's room for improv, you know, there's room for spontaneity, that you have enough structure, and, and enough coaching where people know where they need to be. But they also have the opportunity to bring back to the point of, of diversity, bring some of themselves into that process as well. And so that's why I say, often, you know, it's like, pass the ball and shorten the passes. Because if you're in a culture of collaboration, where there's a lot of waiting for approval, waiting for permission, long handoffs, sometimes days, right, versus this synchronicity in this chemistry, where people are moving around the field together, I think it's important sometimes for for coaches and managers to use metaphors or symbols to get their team in the right place. And the other, just to kind of keep going as the other example I use a lot is the Brazil national team. And it's certainly a team that I had I got to work with over almost three decades. Right. And what I was always struck by Brazil, through their style of play Jenga is it really was this this playbook where the individual was celebrated, what made them unique, was celebrated in an engram, even if you're, even if Brazil was frustrating you as a fan for 90 minutes, at one point within that game, there would be something brilliant, essentially, because that was, that was their point, they played beautifully, and one at the same time. And I think there's a lot of parallels to the creative process within that. If it's too rigid, and there's too much structure. People can't create beautifully. They can't, they can't flex and improv within that.
Graham Allcott 38:39
Yeah, and I love those two ideas sitting alongside so the the Barcelona tiki taka is, you know, it's very team orientated and I love that bit in there. You know, it's about the awareness of where everybody else is and whatever everybody else is doing. I think that's such an important thing in management that you know, we often lose sight of in leadership roles because we've got our own bit to do right and so we're not having that awareness of what's happening elsewhere. And then yeah, obviously the Brazilian thing feels like the opposite right? It's like this sort of explode with with with something really beautiful and you know, and don't apologise for expressing yourself. Yeah, I really love that. One of the ideas in the book which really struck me is best explained by me asking you how many photos have you got on your iCloud account?
Greg Hoffman 39:31
Yeah, it is 80,000 range and no you know, I'm sure my my laptop is just dying or my iCloud I hope I don't you know, I don't know how many times I've had to upgrade my storage capacity. I plan iCloud account.
Graham Allcott 39:50
Apple must love you. But yeah, tell us I
Greg Hoffman 39:52
think so. But but but here's the deal. I talked about that idea of just You know, if empathy is what finds the insight in the truth, it's inspiration that reveals it, right? It's how you take that truth and express it to the world, whether it is a product or a service service or an experience. And it's so important to get outside yourself, look outside your business sector, I can't emphasise this enough, so much of innovation within storytelling, or product design, etc. Comes from transference from others, other business sectors, you know, I like the great story of Nike Air, you know, Nike Air might be the most significant innovation in Nikes history. And that actually came from a NASA engineer, you know, that was, you know, innovating for space exploration, you know, and, and coming up with ways to create astronaut helmets, an idea that he came to Nike with this idea, and that Nike embraced that, because they understood that you need to always be open and seeking inspiration from other areas. And so that led to Nike Air, you know, a revolution in in footwear cushioning. So, there are many other examples with with within that as well. But for me, I'm constantly it's not only about finding inspiration and capturing it, I think you need to have a way as a team of, of bringing that inspiration back inside an organisation, organise it in a way where everyone might have access to it. Right. And it becomes this energy source, to not only your team, but the entire brand. It's quite powerful. If everybody has that, you know, that seeking mentality. And I think your probability to find new ideas, and introduce new things within the world that your audience lives within, goes goes way up. And look, Graham, we're not all naturally curious. But I do think curiosity is like a muscle, I think you can exercise that. And I think it's also really important, you know, not only do I have way too many photos and screenshots from my phone of things, I think are interesting, whether it's a quote, or a piece of architecture, or a product, etc. But I also try lots of new emerging products and services and innovations. And, and by by using yourself in some ways as a guinea pig, again, just it and forcing yourself to do that. So it's like you're trying new products, you're meeting new people, you're having conversations like we are today, you're going to see different things. But but make a plan to go out and find it. Because don't don't wait for inspiration to just hit you by chance.
Graham Allcott 43:19
Yeah, and so you talk in the book about things like, you know, bringing Marie Kondo in to talk about the life changing art of tidying up and when it and having a focus on Japan. And there's a lovely bit where you talk about doing these different team building events and making advertising with Las Vegas theme and writing children's books in a few hours and stuff like this. So there's like, things that you can do on a leadership level on a team level that brings the outside into the organisation. But in terms of that sense of your own curiosity. So if curiosity is a muscle, and someone doesn't feel as curious, and I'm definitely not as curious to have 80,000 screenshots, like, I that's a good thing. It's probably like the hardest question to ask you, because you're obviously naturally curious. And often when someone's really naturally, you know, have a skill set. It's hard for them to, they're like the worst person to teach you. But like if I said to you, like, what's the, what's the light bulb that goes off in your head when you're on your phone? And you think, Oh, I must screenshot that, like what's what's, what are the questions? What's the inspiration? What's the thought process that's going on in your head when you make that decision to save something and come back to it later?
Greg Hoffman 44:34
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's not necessary. It's twofold. Sometimes it may relate to something that I'm working on. You know, I work with startups today I sit on a few of those boards. I'm very aware of what we're pursuing to put out into the world. And so I might be looking at, you know, scrolling through my phone looking at what a different ran has done, or a different startup or, you know, it might be a cooking show or that they've introduced something unique to that, whatever it is, I need to I have the, this, this voice that says you need to log that, you need to capture that. And I'll be honest, it's not as organised as I would like it to be. And oftentimes, some of it just goes into the air, right. And probably, I'll never see it again. But all it takes is one of those points of inspiration. And sometimes in a year, I might, I might find 1000 things in a year that I found interesting person, a place a thing. All it's gonna take it one moment, I, you know, I talked about in the book, I took the team to Savile Row, to look at the greatest suit makers on Earth, your neck of the woods. And what we saw there directly inspired a first of its kind, you know, sneaker customization shops. And what started as one shop that we tested in New York, over the next few years, became customization sneaker shops, at all of our flagship stores around the world. But it has to start with the fact that we went looking for inspiration. And we stepped into these fine tailor shops to see the care and the level of service that they took to create, essentially suits that were work of heart. And we said, well, what if we created that was sneakers. And we didn't just add again, it gets back to it's seeking inspiration. It's asking the question, how does this How could this relate to what we're trying to pursue? And then finally, not just talking about it, but doing it, and having a space that's protected to come up with unique ideas, because look, we're all busy. There is a plan, it's this is business, and it's work, and we come to work to execute the business at hand. But on the way to delivering that plan, I think it's really important for managers and coaches to to ensure that there's space, whether it's once a month, once a quarter, or once a year, where the team feels motivated, and quite frankly, accountable to deliver ideas that aren't necessarily on the brief. Because look, Ram if if all we're doing is waiting for someone to tell us what to do, how are we going to then then we're not. I think exercising some of the inherent traits that we have locked up within us. Sometimes we just don't know that we can be more empathetic, more curious or more fearless. Because we haven't been asked or allowed to exercise those traits.
Graham Allcott 48:14
Yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, there's something in there about space, which maybe just segues us on to the last question, I'll ask you. So the book is emotion by design. And yeah, just full of just some really great stories. I didn't get to talk to you about LeBron James, I really wanted to tell that story. But the final question, I read that you've so you said before that you were adopted into a white family, and then I read that you've just recently in the last year or so found your original birth families. And I just wondered, you've gone through these two. So the whole world's been going through this experience of COVID. Right, but you've had these other two really big experiences, finding your birth family, and then obviously, checking out of one of the coolest jobs in one of the coolest brands in the world. And I just wondered as you've had that space over the last couple of years, what what has that space taught you what your reflections on the last couple of years?
Greg Hoffman 49:11
Yeah, I mean, I am obviously, you know, leaving Nike in February of 2020. I had no idea that COVID was about to hit in March, right. And I was preparing to essentially do four things, right, teach, advise and speak, share it share my knowledge, right? With a focus on bringing more diverse representation into the fields of advertising and marketing and design and innovation, which have kind of lagged behind for quite some time. And then fast forward to march of April, April of 2021. And I was just minding my own business, actually reading if you can believe it. I was reading the New York Times, you know, the newspapers, stillborn Are you okay? And yeah, that's when I got an notification from 23andme. From someone that said that I was her uncle. And within an hour after some sleuthing and social media, I realised, no, this person is my sister. And, and not only was she my sister, but she also, I started as a graphic designer. And when I looked at her profile, she was a graphic designer, I looked at the profile further, she went to my high school. So that moment led to an incredible like, wave of knowledge. And and this idea that over my lifetime, add so many questions that, you know, were never answered, because you might take it for granted. But why do I look the way I do? Why do I speak this way? Why, why do I have certain characteristics or passions? And so within the last year, so many of those questions have been answered. And I go forward with just incredible optimism. You know, even though there's, there's so many, we're, you know, everyone's dealing with a lot, certainly, you know, two years of COVID, you have the war going on right now, everyone's under a lot of pressure, there's a lot of uncertainty. But I also just back to this idea of creativity, being able to change the world. And leveraging, you know, the art that we can make together to kind of move this thing forward. I've never been more optimistic about that, in my own practice, and what I'm doing today, professionally, but also, with this kind of this confidence, I kind of have with the knowledge of understanding where I came from, through this discovery of these two, you know, families and the generations that go back and truly finding out where a lot of that creativity comes from. And maybe a lot of that on the other side, where that need to want to engage in the world in a way to kind of back to that idea of Break, break down barriers and provide access for those that are unseen and unheard. So I'm pretty excited about the year ahead, and certainly writing this book is my hope is that it's a catalyst for others to participate in that journey.
Graham Allcott 52:43
Yeah, well, it certainly feels like that. And there's so many stories, I mean, the word I'm kind of left with is stories. And there's so many stories in this book, and you just describe really practically how those stories have changed things in the world. So just want to say thank you for writing it. And how can people, obviously people go go online and buy the book, but where can they connect with you and find out more about what what you're doing? Yeah,
Greg Hoffman 53:07
you can connect with me on LinkedIn, of course, or through, you can kind of see what I'm up to through Instagram, at GH OFF 70. And you can go to either one of my websites, the modern arena.com kind of talks about what I'm doing from an advising standpoint. And from a book standpoint, you can check out what's happening at emotion bite, as you know, a motion by design.co. So I'm always happy to engage in conversation, and certainly share a passion for, you know, this creative space that we all live within. And by the way, I just want to be clear, you know, we all have the capacity to be creative within this process, right? Because I think sometimes a lot of us think Well, I'm not creative. And that's just not the case. When you think about the types of ideas at scale we're trying to put out in the world. We all need to participate in that
Graham Allcott 54:12
special, really inspiring. Just Greg, thank you so much for being on beyond busy.
Greg Hoffman 54:18
Thank you, Graham. It's been a pleasure.
Graham Allcott 54:22
So there you got it. Greg Hoffman, I obviously had to be the Brit asking the question. Is it Nike or Nike that settle the thing for me? Yeah, my childhood. Pondering is now complete. So there you go. Thanks. Also, as always, to Emilie and Pavel, my team on the podcast for putting all that together and Think Productive, our sponsors for the show. What's happening? So I have just finished doing focus groups for my new book Kind of had some really great feedback. And maybe the problem with having great feedback is you start to worry if the focus group team have missed stuff, there's gonna be stuff that you really wish you'd picked up during the focus group stage. And they're all just too positive, but I'm taking it as a good side. It's slightly unnerving when everyone's just like really positive about it. But also, I think I was saying to someone the other day, once I've actually finished the book and handed it in, I'll be able to actually treat that positivity with a bit more excitement and be a little bit more like, yeah, there's energy around this isn't there, like people are into this. So really excited to see how that is going to shake out over the next few months. And we're developing a keynote talk around that actually, as well. So if you're interested in me coming in to your business to talk about Kindful Leadership, then drop me a line, it's just Graham (at) thinkproductive.co.uk. And the best place to sort of keep in touch with me and what I'm doing and everything else is signing up to a rev up for the weekly email. So it's just one email 4:05 pm. UK time every Sunday night with something positive or productive for the week ahead. And I just also use that as a little way to just tell people what I'm up to and just share news and stuff like that. So if you want to sign up for that, if you just go to Graham allcott.com forward slash links. And there you'll find the link to the rev up for the week, email, and also just loads of other stuff as well. So Graham allcott.com, forward slash links, and I mentioned this on the last podcast. Oh, by the way, thanks to everyone who sent me nice messages about the Monica our dama cheer episode, which I really enjoyed doing. Really enjoyed bingeing cheer as well on Netflix. I don't binge very much. But yeah, I really enjoyed that one. Yeah, got some lovely comments. And as I mentioned on that podcast, we are planning on making some changes around the podcast and beyond busy and moving to a new format, probably from September. So we're going to do a few more of these, have a break for the summer and then come back with something a bit new in September. So for right now, I'll just say keep subscribed to be on busy, and sign up for the rev up for the week, email and then all will be revealed as we head into the summer months.
But until then, we'll be back in two weeks time with another episode so we'll see you then take care bye for now.
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