Graham Allcott 0:04
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Beyond Busy podcast. My name is Graham Allcott. I'm your host for this show. This is the podcast where we talk productivity, work life balance, how people define happiness and success. All the big questions around work life. Before we get into this episode, I just want to do a quick swear word Parental Advisory notice the guest on this week's show has a book with a swear word in the title we're going to talk about that word a lot. And if you don't want to hear that for some reason, then please switch off now. I should also use this as the opportunity to apologise for all the other times I've sworn and all the other podcasts for have not made any reference to Parental Advisory doses. But I just thought it was probably worthwhile doing it given the nature of this one. So if you are still here and you have not switched off, then I'm very excited to say that this week's guest is Stef Sword-Williams. She is the author of a new book called Fuck Being Humble. And she's also someone whose work I follow for a while she has basically an events company of the same name. So we talk a little bit about that and some of the work that she's done all around the idea of self promotion and making it less icky and making it less like something that we don't want to do. And so we're going to talk about my own hangups with it, we're going to talk about why some people will find it tough, and also all the benefits of it. So once we really think about how we market ourselves, how we put ourselves out there, how we take this kind of risks, it can have some huge benefits for our work for our careers, all that sort of thing. So really interesting conversation that you're going to really enjoy it. I'm going to do a couple of notices in bits and bobs at the end. But for now, because this is a long one and it's a good one. I just want to get straight in So, here is the conversation with Stef Sword-Williams. Right, we are rolling. I'm with Stef Sword-Williams, how are you doing?
Stefanie Sword-Williams 2:10
I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.
Graham Allcott 2:12
You're very welcome.
So we've just been chatting a little bit and sharing our sort of COVID story stories and experiences because we kind of do. Well we talk about different subjects but we have similar ways of delivering it IE events and workshops and books and all that sort of stuff. So how are you doing today? versus how is the last few months been like how are you kind of are you do you feel like you've switched into the new normal Is it still frantic? Like how you doing generally?
Stefanie Sword-Williams 2:43
It's such a roller coaster for me, I don't I don't think I've ever really actually accepted there is a coming and do normal and I kind of just going with the flow of it or I'm not trying to go back to what it was. And I'm not saying but it's the new normal. I think I've just literally week on week just pushing through there's so much stuff going on at the moment where I've never I don't really feel like I have the chance to stop and accept whether it's the new normal I've just each week just getting through it as I can.
Graham Allcott 3:15
And as people are listening to this, It's September well if you listen to it when it when it first drops, this is September and your book has just come out, Fuck Being hHumble. Yeah. So firstly, just say congratulations on the book. It's it looks beautiful as well like the typesetting and it's nice hardback and it's kind of making me a little bit envious about some of my, my previous paperbacks which don't look as, as just lovely and professional as this. So firstly, congratulations on it. Have you found before we talk about the subject matter? How have you found the process of writing a book?
Unknown Speaker 3:51
Yeah, really interesting. So I definitely wouldn't usually describe myself as a writer. I am very much a storyteller. And that's always been ingrained in everything I do, whether it's public speaking or within the workplace. And writing is something that it just, I was always a more on the art side like I was more of a drawer and creative person. And I think I have always had words inside of me and opinions, but they're usually communicated verbally. So I did write a blog at uni. And I always joke that it was it was pretty bad. And it's hidden in the depths of the internet. Now, nobody can find it. But it definitely helped me to learn how to articulate and form opinions that were more rounded or that I could use, you know, in meetings or in the interviews when I was speaking to people. So sitting down to write a book was a completely new world for me. I've been working in advertising for seven years, much more in the project management account directing side of things. So again, it was a lot more of the verbal communication and project management than actual writing. So it's definitely been a journey. I really, I really enjoyed it. Actually, when I was doing it, I was working full time. So I would basically just set aside every Saturday. And like most people, I got writer's block and frustration when it didn't work on some days that I needed to just step away and walk away from it. But I also only had eight months to write it was a really tight timeframe. So it was it was quite pressured but I feel it was an extension of everything I'd already been doing so the events that I was running it was kind of extending them further out and it just a bit of a life history of my all my experiences rolled into one really so I think in a way it was easier than writing a fiction where you know, it could go in lots of different directions at least I had a structure and I knew the direction I wanted it to go in. I think I you know, just like anybody I definitely battled imposter syndrome and I'm productivity to your guidance of, you know, making sure that I didn't I made myself write for 12 hours straight because I only had one day a week to do it and really learning about days when I was on a roll and days when I wasn't so and yeah, it's been it's been a an such an amazing achievement for me get to get to experience and do in my career. And I'm so grateful of the opportunity and so big shout out to quadrille and Pft for making it happen and but yeah, it's it's um, it's kind of feels quite surreal even seeing the book it still doesn't feel like it's mine having you'll probably have experienced this as well. Like it was a GI doc for so long. It was it was a digital version for so long, but seeing it as a paperback or hardback now, sorry, it feels quite just yeah, just hasn't really sunk in still, I feel.
Graham Allcott 6:47
Yeah, mine is the moment where the typesetter does their thing and then they send you a PDF of what it will look like when it's printed and you go Hmm, it looks like all the other books right. So until that it looks like a really messy document with common It's all over. And then suddenly, it's like, Oh, looks pretty good though.
Stefanie Sword-Williams 7:03
I remember when I got the artwork with the front cover on it, and the day, so I'd seen like iterations of the cover, but it took a while to get to the final decision. And then I saw the day on it. And I was in the middle of Angel in London and preparing for another event. I was running around like a headless chicken. And I just burst into tears. And I, and I think that was probably like, just, you know, you know, a year and a half worth of running, but being humble, and it all just been like, wow, this was the moment and I hadn't cried about it emotionally, in a happy way. Until that point, and it really hit me then. So I think I'm definitely at stage two of like, I just want to know and hear what everyone thinks about it, and then as long as it's positive. And then hopefully it'll it'll start thinking a bit more.
Graham Allcott 7:51
We'll come on to dealing with negative reviews later,
Stefanie Sword-Williams 7:54
and I'm not ready for those.
Graham Allcott 7:57
So the book is called Fuck Being Humble. Which is just obviously just a very arresting, out there kind of title. And it really resonated with me just the whole idea because I feel like I struggle with self promotion quite a lot, just the idea of it. And that sort of feeling quite, you know, feeling like it's quite sort of braggy or arrogant or whatever. Like, there's just a lot of kind of big, negative emotional baggage, I think that a lot of people have with the whole idea of self promotion. So why do you think people particularly struggle with just the idea of self promotion? Like, first of all,
Unknown Speaker 8:39
There's so many reasons why I actually talked about it very early on in the chapters in at the start of the book of saying, like, you know, our education doesn't necessarily, it's set up to teachers, but not to teach us how to promote ourselves or to run businesses. And similarly, like our parents, if they didn't study The same things we studied, they may not get that, you know, my parents are very more in the academic accountants finance, they didn't get that I in order to stand out in the creative industry, I actually needed to do self promotion. So they probably they were actually pretty great. But there were there were parts of it where they probably didn't know how much I needed self promote and the importance of it. I think there's things like our workplaces and who we work with, you know, when you want to brag about our achievement, you might get snide comments, people thinking you're, you know, sucking up or you're showing off. And I think in the UK in particular, it's ingrained in our culture, we're apologetic about everything. It's something that Americans pick up on really quickly, when they meet us. Like why are you apologising for somebody sitting at the table before your unit, like, we apologise for everything. And there's actually like, you know, in other countries like America, they they are talking about, they have self esteem classes and they have confidence in grades. In their culture and promotion is just a big part of what they do. But, you know, because of our social conditioning, because of the locations you're in, it can be like your upbringing, it can, it can just be so many different factors. It could just be that you had one bad review, where someone told you, you are too confident, or you'll never actually be as good as that person which could hold you back for the rest of your life. There are so many situations that I hear about and it pains me to hear each time because I really do see it as such a fundamental skill. And that it's, you know, it's upsetting to hear that people get to the age of 50 and they messaged me and they say, God, I wish I had something like this when I was your age because I've wasted years not doing stuff like this, you know, like, I find that so hard to hear. But I totally believe it because, you know, we do we live in environments where it's it's frowned upon to celebrate ourselves and I think that's the real shame across the world to be honest.
Graham Allcott 11:02
Yeah. And is it something that you struggle with yourself? I mean, you know, I wrote productivity ninja because I've struggled with productivity. And then once I mastered it, it just felt like, I just want everybody else to know this or was it more? You found it really easy? You know, when you're younger, and then it's like, I want to make sure everybody else can do this, like, what's your own history with just the whole idea of self promotion?
Unknown Speaker 11:24
It's really interesting that you asked me this question because I get asked it a lot. And I would absolutely be lying. If I said, I didn't feel like I've always been a confident person. But I think as well as you know, my parents always been really supportive. I do feel a big part of my confidence was throwing myself in the deep end in so many situations. Sometimes not optionally, sometimes I just had bosses who did it for me. And in that in doing that, men, I had to, you know, fight I had to do it. I had to swim back up and see if I could actually make that leap. But I Don't know if it's because of my confidence I was put in those situations, which meant I was forced to learn quite quickly on how I need to pitch things with enthusiasm or how I need to smash an interview because I you know, I move jobs quite regularly like it's all from lived experiences that definitely in situations I was not qualified for. I didn't have the experience. I didn't know if I could do it. I was had a lot of self belief. So the belief that I can do something with or without the skills, which has definitely caused some dramas in my life. Well, I would say, you know, I think the confidence built from taking the risks that some people are just very scared to take. It isn't just that I wrote in on this horse and was like, I've always been fabulous. Like, you know, it's, it's very much been a journey I've, I've moved cities numerous times in my life. I've changed jobs seven times. I've joined startups, large businesses. You know, independent businesses, I've just started my own business. You know, it's, it's all come from me having to take various risks where I definitely fell out of my comfort zone it spaces but I did do. I mainly worked in accounting, directing and project management. But I did towards the last three years of working in advertising, I did a lot of new business development. And that was a real eye opener for me to see how important self promotion was, in order to generate business for big established businesses, let alone for the individual themselves. So I think I've got my work experiences is a lot of what has driven me to this point. And I too have had bosses that have put me down or not believed in me or people in my life that have said, you won't go on to leave the city or do much more when I was living in the north and, you know, I felt it but with everything that I've tried and risked doing, I've ever experienced Really incredible moments of success that I'm now in a place where I really want to share them. And the reason as well, you know, I'm 28 right now. And, of course, I could have waited another 20 years before I was an absolute expert and super qualified in this field. Or I could start doing peer to peer ship sharing, and helping as many people as I can, as soon as I can. And that kind of more of my Outlook, if I help one person with this story, or this journey, or, you know, encouraging this mindset, that's enough for me.
Graham Allcott 14:35
Yeah, I was really struck by what you're saying about being in at the deep end as well. And one of the things that you said is the more we self promote, the more confident we get in our skills, our craft and our abilities. And it feels to me like yeah, if you throw yourself in at the deep end, then you very quickly gain the confidence to be able to do those things that felt like out of your reach before. But of course, for a lot of people, they're not confident To jump off the diving board, right, so that feels like almost like a little chicken and eggs, I suppose the suppose the lesson there is is take risks and take leaps as much as you feel is palatable, right?
Stefanie Sword-Williams 15:12
Definitely. And I think a big part of that is also surrounding yourself with the people that encourage you to do that. So I have a lot of friends that when I was like, I'm going to move from Manchester to London to join a two person startup. I have two other job offers on the table, very established companies, but I'm going to take this risk and there were quite a few of them were like, are you sure you want to do this? I had to convince my dad a little bit at the time. He's really glad that I did it now but there were definitely people who risked that but I knew myself No, I wanted this challenge and I wanted to try something new. And I think something I say to a lot of people is like, it's so important that people you surround yourself with because whilst I love and adore the people that had that fear for me, you know, just from a sense of security Whether I enjoy it, I've also as I've established my career, and particularly living in London, I've started building people who are so excited at the thought of thrill seeking or like taking a risk and go, Yeah, why not? You can definitely do that. And have like this limitless self belief for me and in themselves and and actually, that is so important for you to take those leaps and those dives. I was talking to a friend recently, she's had an idea that she's wanted to get off the ground, and I was just thinking about it yesterday, and I boys know it. And I was like, I was thinking about this and I think you should do X, Y and Zed. She just come back to me today and she was like, you've definitely gave me inspiration. I think I'm going to start doing it. And you know, I don't get to see her as much because she lives in another city now but it's about that had I not have sent that message would she be back thinking about it again, and I'm not saying that I'm the reason that will happen but surrounding yourself with the people that give you the encouraging And the empowerment that you can do those things with or without the experience is so important. And I think, you know, I don't think I you know, I've not had an I've had a privileged upbringing, I wouldn't say that I've had a hard time. But I do feel like my story can be celebrated as a bit of an underdog story of, yes, I'm from the north. No, I didn't have any creative contacts. When I was going through the creative industry. I got like eight different creative placements at university all through my own contacts, you know, like, I moved to London, and I've built an amazing network and so many amazing opportunities, but none of that feels like it's been handed on a play. It really has been me pushing and working really hard and surrounding myself with people that believe in me and believe that I can do it, you know, with or without those skills and that experience that a lot of people are held back by.
Graham Allcott 17:53
That's really inspiring. I was a free school meal kids at school, myself and I I've had a couple of conversations. Recently people saying, Oh, so you must have, you know, gone to private schools and I think partly because the way I talk as well right like I've sort of, over the years developed a very sort of rounded, more Southern accent than where I came from. And yeah, I think people just make assumptions that I'm white and male so therefore I must have had loads of privilege and whatever and it's Yeah, it I suppose maybe that highlights how how a few of us there are people just make that assumption.
Unknown Speaker 18:28
And I think also like I I went to really rough school I did really well in my GCSEs and a levels but that was surprising like I didn't get it and we didn't i didn't have it was at the school did well with the good kids, but there were there wasn't the best and and I feel like you are there are lots of things that hold people back. 100% but you know, your journeys of where you've come from are so important because I think it pushes you to work even harder and prove people that No, I didn't need to go to private school. No, I didn't write a business plan when I saw it, there's no, I haven't had advice from other people. You know, this is, this is me driving this and and i think that that's your inner personality and your values that drive you irrespective of the surroundings that you came from.
Graham Allcott 19:18
I just want to about the F word very briefly. So, so the the company is called being humble, and the book is called fact being humble. And then you've got these workshop names. Let me blow your mind. Ain't no shame, bitch better have my money, which I just love. But, so firstly, where did those come from? But also, have they ever been a barrier to you because they stand out and it really sort of shows me that. Whilst you might have been on the project management side in advertising you you've clearly learned how to get people's attention and learn how to tell stories. But have you ever found that useful? The F word in your company name has kind of has it closed the door for any companies wanting to hire you or things like that.
Unknown Speaker 20:06
Oh, this is such a great question. I'm glad you asked this. So I think first of all, they say that your businesses and your brands are an extension of you. And whilst I don't want to paint a picture that I go around, swearing at everyone and, you know, constantly churning out these motivational statements, I do think that you know, whether it was subconsciously or consciously thought being humble is very much me my personality, and not necessarily the message, but the way in which it's delivered in the sense that I am very much like, if you've got a talent, then you go out there and you use it because there are so many people who are from disadvantaged backgrounds that don't get those opportunities, and that will get fall through the cracks in it and I hate seeing that and so rather than sitting on something that you've got, and that you are amazing at and just wishing and hoping that everything comes to you go out and get it. I'm not I'm not I call myself like a tough love. Tough Love agony on careers coach because I'm not going to be like your boss, babe and shoot for the stars and everything will happen like that. If you look at my Instagram account as being humble LDN that is not what you get from me. It's straight talking advice on how you can make the most of your talent and your skills. And so I think, you know, I actually had like a few names I played around with, and I just remember saying it and again, this is that interesting thing about telling your friends or being surrounded by people that maybe are going to give you some advice versus the advice that you actually need to hear. So when I told my friends that I was going to run a business called Fuck Being Humble, naturally, they were scared for me and to convince them and, and I was like, I just can't think of anything else that has the punch and they were like, Yeah, but you could intimidate Quiet people. And I was like, Yeah, but I think I can make this work I got, I need to stop people in the tracks, I want to be different. And I'm so glad that I didn't. Although again, I appreciate their feedback like Klingons their reservations, because it has absolutely been the driving success of the book of the book, also the business and everything I stand for. There's no way the things that have happened in the past two years would have happened. If I called myself shoot for the stars, like there's just no way. And I think on the names of the event, so I when I started writing the I wrote some form of a proposal. It was like a 78 page keynote, where I just, basically like offloaded all my thoughts that are in my head, and at the same time, I was listening to an r&b hip hop playlist. I liked my favourite genre of music, usually 90s because I'm one of the kids from the nine appreciates that music will only listen to that music and safe Best Music ever. And as I was listening to it, you know, Missy Elliott was coming on and she was saying ain't no shame, get your head in the game. And then I was listening to even glanced at Barney. And there was thinking like, Let me blow your mind. And I was like, how cool would it be if I just took what I'm listening to right now and I put that into career development and I kind of broke the traditional norms of what professional development that like and I shook things up a bit. And that is actually where it's born from. And it's so I remember that day so vividly. I was in the Ace Hotel, like lots of other East London creatives, writing away and and that those that music came on, and it's massively been a thing that people have connected with, in terms of how it's helped the business. I think when I explained that they based on my 990s r&b favourite songs, people love it.
Unknown Speaker 23:51
of SEO, it's not ideal because it doesn't actually show up. So that's something that you know, again, you know, without knowing Running a business and understanding SEO, I would never have known but they were big. They're a big personality of the brand. So in terms of like the names and the choices, I don't regret any of that. And I'm, as much as I get trolled and get some messages, and I get told how I should and shouldn't be communicating this message. I'm really proud I went for it. And it's a really good example of, you know, making a stand and creating a brand name that is not only disruptive, but it is I say to people, it's a mindset that I want you to adopt. So whether or not you verbally use it, whether or not you get a tattoo of it, or you put stickers on your laptop with that message, you can adopt that message in your head, and you can interpret that an action that however you want to do it, but I've had people messaged me say I was I was in a meeting and I really wasn't sure how to do it. And then I just said to myself, no, but being humble. I'm going to do this on a put myself forward for it. And that's what I'm living for like that though those sorts of bits of feedback are amazing for me. And I just Yeah, like I said, I don't think I'd have got that. If I'd have gone for something a bit more simpler and conservative. I think in terms of whether it's held me back or whether I found barriers, the first thing is that Instagram, Facebook and Twitter won't let me advertise. So the irony of building a brand where I actually can't self promote is so funny. If for some reason it blocks me because it says profanities. Even though the the focus has got an Asterix, it won't let me advertise. I actually really need to just speak to someone at Facebook and be like, please let me but the flip side of that
Graham Allcott 25:46
is, please let me give you my money. Let
Unknown Speaker 25:48
me just let me do it. And the flip side of that is the following is organic. And I'm prouder of that. And I'm you know, as someone who has worked on the advertising side and knows That you don't make a viral campaign unless you spend a shit tonne of money on it, and you get it in the places where it's seen, you know, people have, you know, seek touts but being humble in it, that's how it's grown. And that's actually even more of an you know, a goal for me and and something that I'm really proud of. But that's obviously been an issue in terms of getting hired or books or working, booked or working with clients. There was one incident with quite a big brand who said, we absolutely love you, we'd love to book you for International Women's Day. We just can't swear so you wouldn't be able to say your brand name. And, and I was like, it was a big opportunity. And I was like, oh, like, okay, so maybe I just run the talk presented by Stephanie sorbian. So you know how to overcome impostor syndrome or confidence by Stephanie Williams. But I said at some point, I'd have to sign posts, my book and my Instagram, which do have the words football It. And she was like, Yeah, no, we're not going to be able to do that. And at that point, I was like, No, this just isn't if there's one thing that I'm even entertaining changing my brand name or like changing the title of my talk, let alone not being able to plug my own products like that. That's that is a problem. So I'm actually really proud I stood my ground and to be fair, that to the person that I was working with, she was only the middleman and she was I think it's ridiculous between you and I, and I'm really sorry. And I just said, Look, I don't think I can do this, you know, the, these are all the reasons why we should work together. I've worked with probably more conservative brands and businesses that are way more straight edge than you are because you're actually quite a cool brand. And so it's up to you, like kind of take it or leave it and she actually came back and was like, we're gonna go with you and we'd love you to use your name. And I'm sorry that we even had to have that conversation. So it's, you know, I had to, you know, really stand my ground with that and At the risk of losing business, but I think it does come a point where it's like, I for the people that get this idea and get the message, I don't have to spend a second explaining it, and to the people that I do have to explain it to well, then maybe we're just not aligned. And I can't, I can't and shouldn't really waste my energy on trying to convince people that this will work when I know that it does. So it's up to people on whether they're ready to join it and and when they are welcome them with open arms, but I've got so many other people that I'd love to support and help instead of convincing people that what I'm saying is valid.
Graham Allcott 28:40
Yeah, for sure. It really, I think maybe one of the reasons it has really resonated with me is well, partly because I think I really value being humble and humility, and I also know that it sometimes holds me back but I think like your choices of names, it really reminds me to text me back to when I came up with productivity ninja. And we had a list of probably about 70 different things that we were going to call ourselves. We didn't want to be consultants, we didn't want to be trainers. And we had a list of all these other job titles that we're going to give ourselves. It was a job title first before it became the book. And I remember being sat with this list and productivity ninja felt like the one that was the most daring and weird, and that would be the most eye catching. And I was like, we're just gonna go with that, because it just feels like, you know, and like you say, it hopefully gives people sort like a bit of a mindset of I'm going to get my ninja on today I'm going to be a ninja, that kind of thing rather than it just being a title. It's sort of people adopt it as part of their own identity to which I think is, you know, the arresting thing about it. But then, I suppose Yeah, we've I think we've had to over the years where people have said to us, we think you guys are the experts on productivity, we'd love to bring you in. And we don't think people would take the idea of productivity. Ninja seriously, so we're not gonna hire you. And it's like, okay, we've had to in 10 years and we've also probably had, you know, dozens where they've gone on to be a ninja, where do I sign? And so yeah, like sometimes being a little bit Mom, I actually I think is is a good thing.
Unknown Speaker 30:16
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as I said, it's, it's down to be interpreted by the individual and how they want to carry that. So I understand that businesses have policies where they can't swear, I completely get that, you know, like, there are people that I'm speaking to right now they're like, we're just gonna have to dodge it because we don't let anyone swear. Like I get it. That was the decision I made when I built this brand. And but the the decision was made to disrupt and, and that's hopefully what I'm doing.
Graham Allcott 30:46
I'd love to just totally move on from this. I've mentioned a couple of times I sometimes struggle with self promotion. Yes. So I'm putting you on the spot a little bit but knowing what you know of me and Instagram and stuff. Have you got Any advice for me on how I can promote myself better or think productive better?
Unknown Speaker 31:06
So I'm glad you asked. And as I get asked this all the time, it's sort of like a one to one coaching session. On it's like, oh, very much on the spot. But firstly, I want to say I actually really like your stuff. And we follow each other on Instagram. And I always feel like you've got a really consistent brand and a solid message. I think, when I, you know, in the short time that I've had to think about this response, I would say, probably seeing a bit more of you in terms of like you who you are behind the book and yeah, like actually, like almost like videos of you or some of the talks that you do, because I know that you post stuff by your podcast, but you know, that's usually audio stuff. And even you and I just talking before this call, we had a quick zoom and it was just it's always nice to see people's faces and actually this is the feedback I get because I find the video stuff a bit cringe. And I can't really do it. And I don't mind if the events recorded and you know, I'll entertain a room. But doing it myself, I find quite discomforting. And but actually, I think there's probably something for you to be letting people see a bit more how you, you know, you speak and you do run events and whether that's done through, you know, Instagram lives or, you know, videos on LinkedIn, like how, how much more can we see of like, your sort of off work personality where it feels less? Like, oh, here's my podcast. And I think that's one of the things that I say to a lot of people is, self promotion is as hard as you make it and it's feels uncomfortable because you're not being yourself. So I once heard about somebody who was petrified of public speaking. So we had to do a presentation to about 400 people. So he sat on stage and wrote his presentation live on a screen and there was no you know, delivery. He wasn't speaking he literally just wrote it. And it was presented real time through text. And I was like, that was that's absolutely incredible. Like how amazing that you've, you've taken something away you just that doesn't feel natural to you and you don't want to conform the way that everyone else's. But I'd have never met this guy wasn't even at the event and I'm still talking about him. So self promotion is how you want to tell your story. You don't have to conform to actually you say to me, Steph, I don't actually like video and that's why I don't do it. That's totally fair play, but how else might I see your personality? What else do to tell me a bit more about you outside of the work realm and I think because but being humble for me is such an extension of me and the way that everything is written is very personal. And it's it's it's me writing it all. It's me writing all the social posts like I am in control of it. I suppose that is the luxury of when you are working so low and you haven't got a team where you're Trying to make sure they all deliver the same message that you're thinking. But I do think people really connect with that personal side. And one of the things that's really helped me build an emotional connection with people is just being honest about the fact that I've been through so much of this stuff. I absolutely don't try and say that I'm the expert and the best person to talk about it. And when I say, you know, like, I've been in meetings where I didn't get pay rises, I have been in meetings where people have told me I am shit, like we I've been there like I get it. And this is these are the things that I've helped put in place for me and I think you can't underestimate the power personal story helps to land your message. So I think whilst it's great that you've got this brand productivity Ninja, it's almost like who are you as a ninja and and why is why is why did you choose that name and almost letting people in a bit more on the journey and particularly for as you were an you're an author and stuff like that without That fronting side without that visual side of seeing about a bit more about you, you only really know the person and the words that they've written. You never actually get them. So yeah, I think, as I said, I think you do a really solid brand job but I think I always know when it's your stuff popping up. And I never think all that was cringe or anything like that. Usually, it's your I suppose my question back to you is, what is the actual root reason for why you feel it's cringe and get to that, and then self promotion will become a lot easier?
Graham Allcott 35:33
Yeah, well, maybe once we finished recording, we'll sit here for another hour. I'd like to give you a counselling session and figure that out. But I do that. Yeah, that is something that's come up like many, many times over the years, and often people have said, we need to see more grey, we need to see more behind the scenes, all that stuff. But yeah, I think there's definitely something there for me about sort of Like arrogance or show offi that I just those words just feel very heavy for me and it feels very unnatural. I was really struck by the thing you said before, which I'm going to really think about which was you know if it's if it's feeling I think he said something like if it if it's feeling unnatural or cringe then it's you're not being yourself. Yeah. And when you said that a minute ago, it really struck me of like, I really need to work out how I how I do this stuff in a way that's being myself. But yeah, then you said, Instagram Live and I immediately cringed because I'm just like, well, I hate I've done about four. And I hate them,
Stefanie Sword-Williams 36:39
And I think those are public speakers. And yet we hate that. And if anybody asked me to pre record a video, I hate it. But, you know, I run webinars every week or I public speak to three or four people and I'm fine. It's definitely but maybe that says something more about you know, that there's different ways You do, it's all about, as you've just said, like how you can start to let people in on your journey and who you are in a natural way where you do look back on it and you go, I don't find this cringe and and actually, you're looking at it's probably because you're comparing yourself to everybody else who does self promotion via ID live and you're like, Oh, that's cringy. Okay, set yourself a brief of what's a non cringe way to self promote? Like, yeah, you know, it's up to you. Only you can just decide what you feel is not cringy. I can't tell you that it's up to you. I did a really good post around five ways to self promote, and that doesn't feel arrogant to your point. And it was basically like a thread of different mindsets, again, that you could adopt when you're self promoting. So one of them was be the cheerleader. So rather than focusing on yourself, you actually celebrate the person that came on your podcast. So you might say, while I've just recorded this podcast, I'm so grateful this person could come on, I couldn't have done it without you What an amazing interview we got to have. Please everyone, check out this incredible story. So you're self promoting, but you're actually putting the you know, the description on on the other person. So not only do you look more selfless, but you're actually celebrating the person that enabled you to have that opportunity.
Graham Allcott 38:25
Yeah, I guess that's why my two my two, like, go to bits of marketing that I do personally and don't outsource to anyone else is a weekly email which only started you know, two or three months ago. Yeah. And doing this podcast, right, because they're both, you know, me slightly hiding away from cameras, me having in depth conversations to people and then, you know, sort of putting the spotlight on other people as much as possible. You know, I mean,
Unknown Speaker 38:51
absolutely, but even if you decided to do you know, I'm one of these people. I'm one of those annoying people that like trying come up with solutions straightaway. But even if you tried to do you know, every, every Friday, you're gonna answer questions that have been submitted to you about productivity and how to overcome them. You are self promoting what you're able to do what you're bringing people in, and you're making them part of the journey. You know, it's really simple things that you can do. And I always say to people, self promotion takes forms in so many different ways. So having a website is self promotion, having a business card is self promotion, all these things that we've had for years that we say no, I don't do self promotion, you actually already do. And it's just about getting over the definition itself. So I break it down in my book and I break it down in all of my talks where I say, self, it just means I am promotion is just an activity that supports a goal or an A. So why for whatever reason, it's got swept up as having a negative connotation. It's not because of the word itself. It's because of what the definition that society has put on it. And only you control how you then change that and own that word in a completely new way.
Graham Allcott 40:08
I'm gonna ponder that some more. And I'm I just know that something really helpful in there. So thank you. Let's talk about the very beginning of, of fact being humbled. And so you did this initially as like a side hustle while you were working in advertising. So I just love to know about the, the challenge of doing that. And obviously, you've you've not only had it as a side hustle, but got it to a point where it can be the main thing that you do, and you've quit your job and you're doing it. Was that a, was that a difficult experience? Was it a tense experience? What did your manager think? Like? What were what were some of the challenges they're in? Like, obviously, they could see that not only was this something that you're really passionate about, but it was something that had the potential to steal you away from them, right?
Unknown Speaker 40:55
Yeah, I think there's, you know what, there's always going to be an underlying feeling Have that from bosses, as has been my experience. And actually, when I started it, I was at the startup with two other people. So, you know, there wasn't many places to hide and you know very much we all knew each other's information. You know, if it was 100 person company, it could have been a bit easier to go under the radar. But then when you build a brand like foot being humble, I don't think I was ever going to go into the range. And I think there was an initial fear and the husband with the jobs it will suffer when I started it within the company I was working well, there was absolutely just the initial fear of kind of be managed around work and how are you going to do it all but I think anybody who knows me knows that I have an extremely hard work ethic and I live and breathe work because I love it. And it's not because I'm an addict, and I try not to drown people with it but my I found a job and a niche and an area where I absolutely love what I do and It is ingrained in all aspects of my life. So, when I started it, I'll be honest, it actually stemmed out of a review that I didn't feel had gone, particularly the way I wanted it to. And I kind of looked at the situation and I felt like I needed to have something that I was in control of. And for years, I feel like I'd worked particularly in advertising where you are. As an as a project manager, you have to take all the crap from the clients, you have to take all the crap internally, you're having to sell in work to clients, they believe it you having to then go back to the internal teams and selling the response of the clients given as well as part of my role was then selling the agency on top of everything that I was doing. So it was a lot of selling other people. And I I just felt like I wanted to create something that I maybe believed in a bit more and I love the companies I've worked for and the clients I've worked with, but I did find myself You know, selling whiskey and selling trainers and things that I just didn't i didn't have that buzz for. Yeah. And at the same time I just moved to London, I was going to load the call networking events, seeing a space where I felt there was an under representation of women. I felt there was an under representation of ethnicities, talent, particularly young talent, and I feel like I'm someone that's experienced ageism and have been told, oh, well, you're that age and he's that age. That's why he earns that much or that's quite nice that that title, you'll get there and I might, but I'm there already. Why? Why are you putting me in this box and I've definitely is everything that I've built as come from my own experiences and I think I needed something at that point. That would just let me have my own creative control and, and, and actually just you they say when you have a hard time at work I'm reading a book about love your job. And it's called love your job and it talks about are you facing? Do you really hate your job? And do you want to leave? Or are you actually facing work burnout. And I think maybe at that point I was facing work burnout, where I just needed to find a creative outlet that allowed me to do whatever I wanted, and was focused on something that I was maybe more interested in at the time. It definitely, yeah, there was management that I had to do in terms of really convincing that it wasn't going to interrupt it. I then actually moved jobs and they were aware of me having fun being humble. And
Unknown Speaker 44:40
it's, it's hard when you're in a side hustle because particularly for foot being humble. It has grown so quickly. And the fear that people have is you must be putting more energy into that than your date. Yeah. And that's something I've had to and I still battle with is I physically couldn't be putting more energy into that because I spend five hours, five days of the week at your company. So all I have are evenings and weekends like I can't be doing any more at your company then if I wanted to, so please don't feel scared by that or fearful of that and I think because I hit as I guys have, there was a lot of millennial boss bitch, you've got this owner Horton going around. Oh, that was very stuffy professional development that hasn't been challenged in a while and and I kind of feel like I cut through for that reason. So it picked up momentum really, really quickly. And it was really hard having to explain that that wasn't because I was not putting in the same effort in my day job. It was because I come up with a really good idea. Yeah, and, and then I think the final job I had before I left before I quit my job and decided to go full time on foot. Buble they actually hired me based on it, they got in contact, they said, we've been watching what you're doing. We love what you're doing. And we want to, you know, we really value you and respect what you're doing in that space. And we want to use your brain and all the stuff you've learned from that to come help our business. And that actually was a real turning point for me because they didn't even look at my CV like they they will have seen they saw my LinkedIn, we had a few interviews, and then I got offered a job within the week or so it was really quick turnaround. But I
Graham Allcott 46:29
suppose that's also the the lesson of it as well, isn't it? It's like, if you can, yeah, if you can convince a boss that not only is this not going to interfere with the work, but it's actually going to feed the day job that I'm doing, right. Like the things I'm going to learn through the side hustle are actually going to help you to develop what I'm doing day to day and there's there's no more solid side than that than someone hiring you. Already with that side hustle in tow. Right?
Unknown Speaker 46:55
Absolutely. And I think to any business owners or managers listening to this Please try and respect and believe your staff when they say that side hustles if for whatever reason you catch them doing that work during the working hours, I get that you might want to, you know, rein them in and tell them that there needs to be a line. But I wish in some instances, it had been more supported because I actually built an incredible network. I have done so many amazing things met so many people through foot being humbled that I would never have met just you know, plodding along, doing my day job, you know, it, it attracted people, and if maybe there was a warmer response, in some situations, I might have been more willing to make that work and see how we could you know, have a benefit and mutual benefit from something that I'd started but because there was a bit of hesitancy in it and a few moments where it was criticised in that way. It definitely hindered my want to try and blend the two and actually with hindsight, I'm glad I didn't, because I, it was my baby. And I'm proud that I've kept it to itself and that it has ended up being, you know, a self sufficient business that takes along and is going really well. So it's not without its struggles, I think my biggest piece of advice for anyone with a side hustle and, and I talked about it in the book actually is just be careful with how much you do and don't share. So a big part of growing a side hustle is to step show people that you can do things outside of your day job that you should be celebrated for. And actually, they may open doors within your work that you may not have even been considered for until they found out about it. So that's amazing. Yeah, the flip side is when you tell them that, oh, I've actually just got a book deal that goes into panic of questioning how much you're putting into your existing day job and questioning how much you know, you can do both at the same time when so I would say be be considerate with the information you share and how much you let on that it takes up your time. And because that is a companies will use any excuse to not pay you more to not give you the promotion to, to put more pressure on you to work harder because that's just what companies do with or without a side hustle. So when you throw a distraction in the mix, or how they describe it as a distraction, then that becomes something that rather than you being celebrated for can sometimes become a hindrance. So I just I'd be sensitive with what you share and make sure you share it at the right moments and you utilise your side hustle or your passion project to benefit your business so that they don't feel fearful.
Graham Allcott 49:49
Yeah, for sure. Talking about negative impacts of things. So I just want to talk about negative reviews. You mentioned trolls before and it Having people having sort of spiky reactions to the name and all that sort of stuff. And you share the thing on Instagram a little while ago, which I just thought was really funny. And it was from an article in The Financial Times and The title is annoying self promoters are not welcome in my inbox. And she's talking all about how people are using out of office messages to share links to things that they've worked on and trying to sort of get people's attention. And then there's this lovely bit in it when she says, are going to reach out to you Is that all right? Yeah, right. So it says consider Stephanie Saul Williams, the 20 something founder of fat being humble, calm, a UK mentoring outfit with a mission to encourage you to be the best possible brand that you can be. She thinks self promotion spells success, and people should do more of it, especially young women. As she told her Muse reporter from the times this year, that means being ready to bugger off bronto from any company that does not value you and sitting next to the job interview. Not opposite them because you should be interviewing them to see if they're up for being the boss, as they say in the real world Good luck with that. disturbingly, the word disturbing. disturbingly, Mr. Williams claimed to have picked up this drivel at University, where she studied fashion communication promotion. I can't imagine this was the university's intention, but if it were, it would be alarming. In my experience people do not like working with and especially for TDs blowhards. Study after study suggests that workers led by a more humble person perform better and what I loved was that you took this very negative review which is actually from like two years ago and you put it on your Instagram and then use that as a way to talk about being criticised and and your reaction to being criticised and sort of dealing with criticism. So I suppose the first I just loved it was a really just a nice way of kind of sharing that and, and sort of using something that could be seen as negative as really positive thing. But like, Did you feel uneasy about sharing that? Because you're kind of digging up something that's two years old that, you know, most people wouldn't have seen and if they had they probably forgotten about you kind of reminding them of that criticism. Yeah, just what describe your, your kind of mental process with coming up with that.
Unknown Speaker 52:19
It's so funny that you referenced that it's two years ago, because it's probably taken me two years to get over that two posts. Really, okay. I'll be honest, it was it was actually really upsetting. And it's something that I've faced as a young female business owner and of people instilling their views or forcing their views on me and my business and my offering without ever experiencing it. So what was quite so at the beginning of being humble within the first three weeks of launching the Instagram account, I got interviewed by the times, which ended up being a double page spread I had no mean Wow, yeah. was three weeks, three weeks. On Instagram. I wrote an article on LinkedIn that said why I started a self promotion platform called book being humble. And it blew up it was meant because it was obviously it was a you know, clickbait title I wanted people to see it but I did not expected so I think it got like, it was viewed by like five and a half thousand people around the world and there was no paid spend behind it. This is what I'm again really proud of, like, I'm no money behind it. And there were about it got like likes by a lot of people. And again, like definitely not my best writing. If I look back now I'm like, Oh, it's a bit clunky, but it obviously hit home with a lot of people. And it was disruptive. You know, LinkedIn can be quite as, you know, generic space where it's quite formulaic content and it obviously cut through off the back of that the times got in touched one it's doing an interview and I I had never had media training and one of the things I said I think She asked me to review her work. And I said, Yeah, absolutely. I'll give you some pointers a bit like what you've just done. But, you know, I was very nervous doing it at the time, she was a journalist, I didn't know much about her. And I basically said, when we're in the interview, I said, Look, it's so nice to meet you in person, because you've got such an incredible like, you know, charisma and the way that you speak and, and you've got great values and I can really feel that as like, but on the online you've got no personality. I'm not seeing enough of what you're seeing what you're showing me right now. And she lifted those words and open the article with you've got no personality, said Stephanie sword Williams and I absolutely died inside. I sunk It was my first bit of press. I was like, mortified. So I you know, I've since learned that you know, journalists want to take you on a journey and and to be fair, that story actually ended up being really nicely written and it was very much like, I wanted to, you know, disagree. With the message of foot being humble but after meeting staff and speaking to her I can see that this is going to help people and she actually like and me to Sheryl Sandberg which was a really huge compliment you know at the time and and that was a big moment for me to be like oh wow, okay, I need to be careful with what I say and don't say it's press. Then all of a sudden I get this call from FTM another I got an answer message saying we want it we want to beat you and I was like, Oh my God, my dad's love def TV yours the link there like as if they're interested. And she called me and she said Look, I hear what you're saying but I and I get it I get it as a woman I get it but we're going to disagree with everything so I just need to do a bit of fact checking and literally didn't ask me for a common didn't ask well and I found myself like really trying to convince her and it got about three quarters of the phone call through rose like she she's made up her mind that she has no intention because
Graham Allcott 55:53
already in our mind written the
Unknown Speaker 55:56
written the this was the most upsetting thing so she asked my age She asked what uni I went to and then even in the article, she didn't even back check my name. So like, at my age sorry, she said like the 20 something I was like, You called me a week ago. You know how old I am? At least say that and
Graham Allcott 56:12
but that's an insult though, isn't it? She said 20 something like, oh, what does she know she So yeah,
Unknown Speaker 56:17
that's the ageism thing. And that is something where, you know, before I even had chance to, you know, like, look back up and go, Okay, moving forward. The next interview I do, I'll be careful with how I word this. She read that article in The Times and decided to change how it was talked about. And the point around sitting next to bosses is I've been in interviews where I've sat across from four board members and it's felt like I was on the apprentice or Dragon's Den and it's been hugely intimidating. And then I've had interviews where I've sat like, you know, more casually like side by side next to them and we've had a coffee in a coffee shop in East London and and I felt The difference in how I present myself and also how they are with me It felt less intimidating. Yeah, I felt I could be more natural. And and I do believe that you know, you are interviewing a company at the same time, yes, I'm grateful that they'll give me the opportunity. But I'm about to give you five days a week of my time, like, you should have that opinion that you are checking to see whether that company is right for you. So it just felt like she irrespective of anything I was going to say or do she was always gonna saw me. And that was her approach to writing a story. And I'm glad I experienced it very early on, because it did make me more aware of how what I say to press and when I say things, and I think the reason I brought it up on social media was because I still get trolled on LinkedIn, and I still get people. I literally had a message from a guy called Chad last week now read out because I couldn't get them. Stephanie I think I understand the message. putting forward out there, there is some good in it. But you have chosen one of the worst names of all time. humanism is the key to almost everything and pride will be your undoing. I hope others do not fall into this trap by following your advice. And I just it, you know, every time you get a message like that, it's not like I'm not gonna pretend it is. But it's just, it's that whole thing of like, if you genuinely experience my brand, and you come to me and you've had all my workshops, and you've read the book, and you still feel like that, then I will absolutely take on that feedback. But if you are judging a book by its cover, which I imagine so many people will do with a book called foot being humble, and you don't give that opportunity then I can't take on your opinion, you know, fairly like I just can't and the reason I wanted to resurface it on social media was because I probably feel comfortable now that I've proven that Put being humble works, and it can, and it won't help. And I think everything is important that you do it with time. So a lot of people told me You should quit your job and run for being humble full time. I was like, No, I'm not. I don't ever want to be a career coach. Like, I don't ever work even though it was absolutely working. I needed to be ready and myself. And that's something that I talked to a lot of people about is that don't don't rush into it until you're 100% sold that you can do this with like the most respect and yourself. And I think that was what that post was about was saying to people that if I'd listened to her three weeks in, I wouldn't have ever done all the incredible things I've done. And actually, no one has ever called my content disturbing. And if they did, I'm disturbed as well. Like the
Graham Allcott 59:46
sort of weird word is disturbingly, I actually
Unknown Speaker 59:49
I don't know if you've had a chance to see it in the book yet but this I actually referenced what she said about the hours of office so she said that somebody put their links to their recent An article in an ounce of Office email and was criticising them for it. And I read that and thought, that's really clever, though I
Graham Allcott 1:00:08
never thought
Unknown Speaker 1:00:10
about that. And that's why I put it in the book. I, you know, I didn't reference the article and everything else that was said, I actually just said, I think that's a really great idea, like, sipping margaritas on a beach was generating new business for yourself, like, you know, and that wasn't the, the age difference between her and I because I know she was probably more in the 815 range. And, and, and also just, I think the saddest thing about that was, she lost the point of feminism and supporting women. And that was a lot of what foot being a mall was built around originally. We absolutely do cater to men and you know, everybody now and and I feel like I'm proud that it's, you know, not gender exclusive at all. But at that moment in time, that journalist was more interested in you know, get The story then actually thinking about how that could affect me and my journey and and all the women and men that I've gone on to help
Graham Allcott 1:01:08
say, what about the clicks? So,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:10
all about clicks, right? And I'm kind of annoyed because I definitely gave him all clicks by sending people the article and say, look at look at what she wrote about me. But yeah, I'm, I'm over it now. Enough to laugh about it. And even though she read that out, like, I was laughing as you were saying it because it is just so ridiculous. Good.
Graham Allcott 1:01:28
I mean, I think you know it. I remember getting a I think I remember being really scared about the idea of getting one star Amazon reviews, and I haven't had many, but there was one and I remember reading it, and I generally don't I try and just avoid reading reviews generally. But I remember reading this one star Amazon review and then having this amazing, like realisation about four days later. That was just a lot along the lines of what you've just said, which is basically Yeah, someone can think that And, you know, it's almost like the Marmite thing again, right? Like they didn't, they didn't like the title. They didn't like the, the the general approach that I had. But it hasn't stopped me being here on this Monday morning able to still do my job, right. It's like her, I thought I've been under this wrong assumption somehow for years that if I get really negative reviews that will sort of, you know, ultimately lead to bankruptcy and a career change. It's like, Oh, no, it doesn't turns out, it's fine. So that was like a big thing for me when when that happened, one
Unknown Speaker 1:02:36
of the biggest problems is that we fear itself. Motion is how others will perceive us. And I think we all get that. But everybody's so busy caring about themselves, they don't actually care that much about you. And I think the same figure that out, the easier it becomes
Graham Allcott 1:02:51
What's that, quote? you'd stop caring about how much people cared about, about you and you realise how little people actually care about you. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:59
so rivets. Yeah, I think social media has a bad part to play in it in some ways. But yeah, I just, I think particularly for that ft article as well. I remember my sister laughing at me for brushing it off because I just said, She's not my demographic. And you've just been slammed in like, you know, quite a big news bear. He wasn't trying to make me feel bad, but I was like, she's not though. So why would I expect anything different and I think that's really important for anyone listening of, you know, just really keep your mind focused on who you're trying to help. And those people will really value you and what you do, but not everyone will. And that's actually Okay.
Graham Allcott 1:03:38
One other thing along those sort of lines that is really worth sharing is, do you know Are you sure a can be Do you know her?
Stefanie Sword-Williams 1:03:45
No, I didn't know I do.
Graham Allcott 1:03:46
She's brilliant. she's a she's my new hero. Basically, she's like, she's a stylist. And then she also talks a lot about sort of worker culture kancil culture. Roll this sort of stuff. And she's a voice that I just think is really needed because I sometimes find as a, as a progressive liberal person. These days, I'm often disagreeing with the approach of people who should be on my team, right? And it's like, she's very much coming from that perspective. But she was talking about arguing with people on social media and you know, people criticising her on social media, and she said something along the lines of, don't let yourself be offended by someone who you don't consider to be intelligent. So but yeah, she's got this, this really great video called The trouble with being woke or something. I'll put it in the show notes. And also, I'll send it to you afterwards. But it's full of these little wise sayings that I just think is so brilliant
Unknown Speaker 1:04:49
on that as well. I actually talked about in the book about social comparison theory and why why we compare the way we do and there's this great I can't think of his name of my head. But there's a quote in the book I talk about, it's like, we're obsessed with comparing ourselves with other people. But we also compare ourselves with really amazing people. So we don't even care about other people on our level, we compare ourselves with people that have had, like, you know, tonnes of money or that have had, like, you know, an Oxford education or, you know, opportunities thrown at them. So it's like, if you are going to compare yourself, at least compare yourself with people who have had similar situations to you like, of course, you're going to feel like worthless if you only ever compare yourself to these people that are on the top of the world. Like, you never know people situation. So the less comparing you do, the better to be honest.
Graham Allcott 1:05:39
So you did this thing recently, where you you posted a picture of AOC with a whole bunch of sort of different labels, I guess of things that that she stands for. And it's sort of gone viral with people making their own and sort of taking on the AOC challenge. So just you just want to explain where that came from? And what have you seen off the back of it?
Unknown Speaker 1:06:04
Yeah. So it's been amazing. Like, honestly, I literally did that post in like 10 minutes. I, I've adored AOC for ages. And I
Graham Allcott 1:06:14
should we just explain who AOC is for anyone who doesn't know, because I think maybe some people might not know.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:19
Yeah. So Alexandria Cassio Cortez is a Congresswoman in New York. And she has basically rise through by just being this incredibly down to earth person. And, you know, she came from working class background. And she prior to actually making it she was working in a bar. It was her brother that submitted the form to like, get her in the position that she's in. There's a brilliant film on Netflix called knock down the house that follows her campaigning, so I'd highly recommend everyone's watch it but earlier this year, I made the Forbes under 30 list. For more And advertising and one of the questions was, who would your dream mentor be? And I and I said Alexandria Cassio Cortez because I just really admire the underdog. People that have made it from not a huge amount but have done such amazing things. And when you watch her speak, she's absolutely mesmerising and as a public speaker, looking for females that really hit home, you know, it's something that I really love to do. And she's one of them
Graham Allcott 1:07:27
her underdog quality as well as when she's cross examining people in Congress. There's a couple of these on on YouTube as well. And it's just just brilliant the way she, you know, with this kind of really forensic lawyer kind of style, just breaks down things that are quite obvious, but really just exposes, where the power is where the money is all that sort of thing. It's, it's brilliant. Yeah, she's,
Unknown Speaker 1:07:53
she's incredible. I adore her. So it's so funny when I make a lot of social media content. I think because it's honest, a rule like it, it hits a chord with people. And I should be having like a social media manager or planner, but I do a lot of it like on the go. And I remember it was a Sunday morning, I quickly made this post where I just highlighted some of her best qualities which were, you know, the fact that she admits to suffering with bath like imposter syndrome and that she's an underdog and she came from working class backgrounds, and you know, just just lots of amazing things. And I shared it, and almost immediately people loved it. And then it got shared by the female lead, which has 620,000 followers. And the post went viral, let's say and my following went from like 8000 to 15,000 in like a week, it was crazy. Wow. And the same on LinkedIn. I had one and a half thousand followers on my business account. I've now got 11 and a half thousand followers. And I'm so proud that the post that went viral is me celebrating another woman but it was funny because it was at the IP posted it. And then a week later the news came out where another congressman had called her a bitch. And it was actually really alarming. So obviously everybody was searching the internet for positive content. Anyway, it's been amazing because I, you know, I've had lots of amazing comments. There have been a lot of men diaries, they're looking around the 4058, probably on the Trump side, saying, straight out of brain cells and calling her stupid and saying really awful, derogatory things on LinkedIn straight
Graham Allcott 1:09:34
out of print. I don't even get that
Unknown Speaker 1:09:37
made your night straight out of Compton. Yeah, they made a album cover with her on it saying straight out brain cells. They've been people correcting actually where she lives and apparently, she's from a really wealthy area of the Bronx. I mean, I just want to message back and be like, I don't care. Like I actually don't care. But yeah, well, what's been so incredible is that It started off in the tech industry, actually. But people were really touched by this, this post, and it being about essentially breaking stereotypes, but also just getting comfortable with celebrating women. And so in the tech industry, a bunch of women recreated the photo where she sat in a suit on stairs. And they did the same post about themselves. And all these coming through and I was like, oh, wow, these are amazing. And I've just not like had a huge amount of time. But I was like, You know what, I'm going to make my own my whole platforms around self promotion, I got a friend of mine to take a photo of me in a similar sort of position, wrote my own words, which I actually think is a really good activity for anyone to do. You know, if you had to create a meme about yourself and put eight or nine words around you, what would they be and, and that's actually a really good way to, first of all, acknowledge what you're good at, but also accept it because you're about to share it publicly. And you're about to tell people yeah, I am good at this. And so anyone who is looking at the sun Promotion activity I would warn recommends get involved. Hashtag AOC challenge and then at F being humble LDN on Facebook and Twitter if you want to share it. But yeah, it's been the snowball effect. And every time I go on Instagram, lots of women are sharing it. And this isn't just in the UK. This is all over the world. And like yeah, I mean, couldn't be more humbled to see it happening, to be honest,
Graham Allcott 1:11:22
nice, couldn't be more humbled.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:25
And I do believe in humility, and I am absolutely humble. I know you do. One of the things and this is a bit of a process that I tell people is there is always a place to be humble in your career. But before you can get to being humble, you need to work your ass off and self that that's the reality is you can't be humble about achievements if they're not noticed and celebrated. So you got to get that that going first and then as soon as you've made it, that's when you're humble. That's when people are saying to you while you're incredible and you say thank you, I really appreciate that. You know that there is a difference and that and that is what I'm really trying to learn with this.
Graham Allcott 1:12:02
I also really liked that so within your choice of words for yourself you've got battles imposter syndrome. still learning supporter so yeah, you've self taught author, you know all things that you know speak to that having humidity as well as knowing when to to turn that humidity down and really promote yourself.
Stefanie Sword-Williams 1:12:23
Thank you.
Graham Allcott 1:12:24
And I just want to finish with a little bit from your book, which is your boyfriend telling you what he thinks should be on your tombstone, which is actually like, I've just as I said, this was like, that's quite a dark
Stefanie Sword-Williams 1:12:41
relationship.
Graham Allcott 1:12:43
You get on well, though, generally,
Stefanie Sword-Williams 1:12:45
yeah, no.
Graham Allcott 1:12:48
But he thinks that on your tombstone, it should say Stephanie Saul Williams fucking relentless, which I really like. So I guess my final question to you is Are you happy that that's your tombstone? And sort of where does where does that come from? And is that is that your sort of epitaph for many years to come?
Unknown Speaker 1:13:08
I actually present that in my workshops. And I say it's in the book. And it's in my workshops. And I use it to highlight the fact that we use really generic words to describe ourselves. And you know, we say things like hard working, friendly, strategic, results driven, and that tells me sweet FA about you and who you are. And so I sort of make the link that actually, if that's what people know me for have been looking relentless, then that's going to stand out way more than warm and friendly. So I'm okay with that. It says a lot about my tenacity. It says a lot about the way I work says a lot about me not giving up and not taking no for an answer. And I've realised that Tom might actually say that for different reasons, but I am going to take somebody who relentlessly optimist and can sell anything and but yeah, I'm I'm proud of that and i i think there are worse and more passive things that could be said about me and and I'd much rather I always ask people, what do you want your legacy to be and I'm okay with that being my legacy I'm pretty proud of that.
Graham Allcott 1:14:19
Nice. Well, I think it's it's inspiring and it's been really inspiring you having on beyond busy so thanks for being on so the book is out. It's called fuck being humble and where can people find out more about what you do?
Unknown Speaker 1:14:35
So they can purchase the book on Amazon or Waterstones in the UK and Australia. There's also an audiobook so if you're an audio listener, then please do unfortunately it is narrated by me and my northern tones. So if you haven't enjoyed hearing my voice then don't get the audiobook and but yeah, you can follow us on Instagram at being humble LDN and You can on Twitter. And also just make sure you follow us on LinkedIn, I try and make sure that I post content on those three channels, I feel like they're probably the most engaged areas that we reach our audiences, you know, during work and also personally, but, you know, I always try and make sure all the content is really actionable. And you get tonnes of advice from it. And it's practical, it's real stories about real people and their successes. So please do follow, please do support, grab a copy for yourself, and also anybody that you think might benefit. And if you're a company with a team, then I'd get the books for your team because I think that's something that's probably going to be really supportive to them throughout their careers.
Graham Allcott 1:15:42
Nice and Fingers crossed. It won't be too long before you're in companies in London, doing, you know, face to face in front of people, workshops and talks again,
Unknown Speaker 1:15:53
we can we can go back to that I was I was really enjoying doing those sessions, but I also run a lot of webinars. That Lee. So, in the meantime, that will that will be what I'll be doing. So please do check us out and heads up being humble.com, where you can find all the details about me and the journey that we've talked about today.
Graham Allcott 1:16:12
Nice. Thanks for being on the podcast.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:14
No worries. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure to chat with you.
Graham Allcott 1:16:24
Have you enjoyed that one as much as I did? Thanks again to Stef. And yeah, really, I was really inspired by that just because I don't know fuck being humble really reminds me so much of the early stages of Productivity Ninja and setting up a new business and needing, and wanting to stand out from the crowd. You know, there's nothing like Productivity Ninja in terms of names or branding or whatever in the space that I'm in. A few people have tried to do similar things since but actually we're still, you know, pretty much holding our own in that sort of space in terms of our brands. So yeah, it just really brought back a lot of those kind of early memories of setting up businesses and some of the the trials and tribulations of Marmite brands, if you want to call it that, or just brands that being daring and being a little bit audacious and stuff, and so yeah, I really enjoyed it. A couple of quick notices on it too before we finish so we are about to launch a thing, which I'll talk about on probably on next week's podcast, actually, it's called Six Weeks to Ninja. This is going to be a six week online live programme with me, it's going to start in November. And it's going to be pretty much exactly that six weeks with me on a Thursday evening, really whipping your productivity into shape. So all the stuff from my book, coaching all through with me, so if you're interested in that, the best place to find out about it because they're going to be the first here is to be on my mailing list. So go to grahamallcott.com and you can sign up with the online form to join my mailing list and then we will have more details on the mailing list. Next week, and then on the podcast after that. So it's limited spaces about 30 places I think we're going to do for this first one, so it's going to be pretty small. And that's deliberate. Same as when I do the live days in London, I deliberately sort of limit the capacity because I really want to make sure that I sort of have enough time for everybody and that we're actually sort of getting into your real stuff. So if you're interested in productivity over this autumn periods, for yourself, or for your team, then join the mailing list on grahamallcott.com. And I'll give you more information shortly. Also to say thank you to Mark Steadman, my producer on the show and our sponsors for the show this week, as not as always, but as mostly always is Think Productive, which is my company, and we run productivity workshops in companies and so if you're interested in that for your team, think productive.co.uk here in the UK, think productive.com. And if you want to find out more about this podcast then you can find out about previous episodes. You can also access the show notes with links to Stef's book and various other things. That's all it getbeyondbusy.com get beyondbusy.com. And we will, as I said before, be back weekly from now on. So we were previously a fortnightly podcast. We're going to be going weekly during this autumn, which I'm very excited about. And really I have Emilie, my assistant to thank for that because she's making the job of putting this all together. Just much more systematised and structured. We were kind of working a lot about on that kind of behind the scenes over the last few weeks, which has been really good. And yeah, some really cracking guests coming up as well. So excited to share those with you. Obviously, if you're not subscribed, please go and subscribe. It really helps us to boost our subscribers boost us up the iTunes charts for that sort of thing. So please do subscribe and like the podcast or whatever your podcast app is and we'll be back next week first time saying that really looking forward to making this a bit more regular and sharing next week's guests with you.
So, until then, have a great week. See you next week. Take care. Bye for now.
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