Beyond Busy #99 with Ben Williams

Graham Allcott 0:04

You're listening to beyond busy, the show where we talk, productivity, work life balance, and how people define happiness and success. My name is Graham Allcott. I'm your host for the show. And on this episode, I'm talking to Ben Williams. Ben is a former Royal Marine, served in Afghanistan. He's also a former bouncer. He's also a former drug addict. And we talk about a lot of those experiences in this book. Some of his battle stories from the frontline in Afghanistan in the book are just unreal. We talked about a couple of them, but yeah, really worth checking out it. I kind of read it with my jaw, just dropping it. Every time I turned the page it was, it was pretty amazing. So really interesting book, we had a real mission with this episode. Actually, we just had tech fails on multiple fronts. So I realize I'm using all these military analogies, like on multiple fronts and stuff, and missions. But yeah, we ended up recording the first half of this one day, and then we recorded the second half of it like a week later. And then even when we were in the second half, we recorded that into half. So yeah, thanks, Mark Stedman, my producer for piecing all of this together. And I think when you get into the episode, you might find that you just can't really tell where the joins are, because I think we did a pretty good job of just keeping the conversation going. And we both just listened to the first half before we started. The second bit just to sort of get back in the zone and all that. I think we did a pretty decent job of, of getting a full hour even though the tech was was very much against us. But yeah, so we talked about his time in Afghanistan, his take on commando values, and leadership and performance. We talked about his work with the England football team. We talked about planning, just really lots of good stuff, and also how to sleep at night, which I think if you're probably in war zones, and have experienced things that that must be a really big challenge as well. So lots of really valuable stuff. In this episode, I think you're gonna really enjoy it. So let's get straight into it. Here's my episode with Ben Williams.

I'm with Ben Williams. And we're gonna talk about your book, The Commando Mindset. So it's been a It's been a long week for both of us. We were just saying, kind of off off record before we started. So what we've been up to so far today,

Ben Williams 2:27

Today is been probably my most productive day of the week, because we're now back at home. Locked away, aren't we? And we've got a foosball table, or foosball is from friends, isn't it? But yeah, football table at work. And I'm really bad at wandering past it, have a cup of tea and then just challenging people. And I actually make quite a few cups of tea. So it's actually nice to be at home. A little bit quieter, just getting on with what I need to do. But yeah, it's been it's been a tough week, isn't it sort of going into lockdown, although we kind of sensed it was coming. And we have to suddenly close down everything and move people around, make sure everyone's happy at home. Suddenly, half the furniture in the office goes missing. Counting chairs out the door to make sure that you're an interesting way to say the least. But we're here. We're live. Yeah, absolutely.

Graham Allcott 3:14

And we're gonna talk about the book, The commando mindset. And the thing I wanted to start with feels like probably the bit that you're really used to talking about and telling the stories of Wednesday, the 24th of August 2011. Let's start with that. So tell us what happened on that on that day in Afghanistan?

Ben Williams 3:33

Yeah, do Don't forget to quickly we were tasked with an operation to basically coined as the hornet's nest, that was to flying in into an area of the green zone, which was sort of midway between the North and the South and place in Helmand Province. And it was an area which had kind of been untouched by the Taliban untouched by UK troops, it was run by the Taliban where they made their IDs where they recruited a lot of planning to and

Graham Allcott 4:00

just explain IEDs because you explain it in the book, but if anyone doesn't know

Ben Williams 4:03

yeah IEDs improvised explosive device so homemade bombs and the Taliban would make these bombs out of planks of woods small things and method pieces of metal some battery packs and and loaded with explosives, put it in the ground leave it on, troops would come by and obviously unfortunately stand on them which was causing a lot of amputations and deaths of those that time in 2011.

Graham Allcott 4:27

How does that actually work by the way, so if you see what you see you're standing on two bits of wood or you or something and then it

Ben Williams 4:33

so how they did it was Yeah, there seems to be two planks of wood. Sometimes they were saw blades and they would probably be about a centimeter maybe two centimeters apart, and they'd have a bit of a block of wood at each end. So it was like almost as a pilot looks at the end a lot thinner, right and then they would have a strip of wire going metal wire across the top of it on the bottom and then one of the and the top and that was then connected by cables to small battery pack maybe the size of sometimes you only needed a very small volt battery, D battery, whatever they're called. And sometimes car batteries. And then they would make homemade explosives, and then fill the explosives with bolts, metal or any sort of stuff they get in the area, dig it into the ground on well used areas that they know troops come through, cover over, they were experts at this, and you walk through and if you don't detect it, you unfortunately stand on it and it and that's their, that was their way of fighting. They're very good at it. We're very good at that way of fighting. So we had to concentrate on taken out those factories that were building, they were building these ideas within because at that point in time, that was what was maiming and killing all our troops. So yeah, we were tasked to fly into this area six months into a seven month tour, we were pretty fatigued by this point had been quite a rough tour up to this point. And yeah, it was to go in and have a fight. It was literally pick a fight for seven days straight and let him know we can get to him. And even on the first day, the day before I said the 23rd when we arrived it, I think we took six casualties. Within a couple of ours, we were heavy fighting all day. And it was really kinetic a term we use in the military, which is it's kicking off in civilian terms. And the 24th came around and brutal fighting the day before and lots of injuries and close calls and a lot of adrenaline. And we patrol into a village which was nearly two 300 meters away from our compound that were occupied. And the idea was to go in, we were there to reassure the local population, which was a very scared population compared to other places we'd been because the Taliban had full control of this area. And just as we were coming up to the junction, that we needed to enter one of the compounds that two guys appeared in front of us dressed all in black and in trainers, which is a very telltale sign of sort of Taliban fatigue by teenage males, which is the age of sort of 18 to 30 not the sort of 18 to 30 clubs, you would probably want to join and they would stood there and it was myself and to the point man, Jordan just stood there looking at him meters away. You could have shaken arms, though that close and there was like this weird sort of standoff of almost like, shit, that's the ton of man right in front of us like meters away. And they had the shit bunch of Marines meters away, but they were unarmed and they just they just sprinted straight off down the street out of sight. And there was just nothing you can do this you can't go shooting him in the back you can't go running after him because that's suicidal. It's the Afghan at that time had a very huge impact on our psychology It was very difficult to battle a the hidden bombs but be when someone appears when you know their enemy, but they're not armed, you can't do anything about it, your hands are tied until you're shot up.

Graham Allcott 7:57

And of course, like so yeah, so obviously, you're in uniform, and identifiable and whatever, so they can shoot you. But you're, it's kind of like your ethics code, right is that if you don't see the firearm on them, you just have to assume they're civilian,

Ben Williams 8:11

it can't do anything. And we, we call them spider sensors, your hairs will stand up and you know who exactly they are. And they ran off into the field. And you could see him sort of run down the street and turn right into the field. And you could hear him cutting through the corn. And I turned around to my my command advisor who's just behind minister getting a compound now. And we could see it literally 20 meters in front of us. And we just started to run all of us to start to run in a straight line, the one behind the other and within a couple of moments are taken a few feet forwards the world erupted around us and huge explosion came from our right hand side which was in a wall right next to us. And I remember him feeling like this intense pain in my leg something on my head and just the explosion I felt almost went through me it's really surreal to describe because when you describe it, it sounds like you're trying to be a hero, but it is no way at all I was just left standing there. Because it happens so quick. The blast didn't take me off my feet. It just went through zoom in and around me. And all I remember sort of being stood there just in this cloud of dust. thinking what the fuck has just happened there. And then this intense pain in my leg just dropped me to the floor and I actually fell on my leg in a really strange way. And when I looked down because my leg was bent round on myself, all I could see was the end of my leg, my kneecap. And because my childhood was rare, there was a bit of blood and there was a lot of pain as I I've stepped on the idea. It's me I've lost my leg. I've lost my leg, having this sort of weird moment myself. And then the my leg, kind of I saw my boots sat on it. I got this round and the dust cleared. I look back down the track and I realized I was by far the best off in the troop and in my injuries and how It was clearly the other guys, which should have been hit quite hard. They were all just lying across the track. And that was kind of it really it was into, get a grip yourself that I had some shrapnel wounds in my leg, but it was I needed to help my buddies. So started crawling around getting to my friends, which were suffering feiss in particular, and started to do some medical work on him to save his life.

Graham Allcott 10:25

And so this I think you took at one point about you're sort of grabbing clothes and trying to plug wounds and things like that, right?

Ben Williams 10:33

Yeah, it was. When I got to him, there was another Marine, which had run up the track, Richie, and he'd got to him and started working on his neck already. Because if it had taken a huge amount of shrapnel, the whole blast would pretty much hit him and Luke behind him, and yeah, but he was dealing with the arterial bleed in his neck. And when I got to Boise, he was a boy appeared dead, to be honest. And he was losing a lot of blood from his artery in his neck, sorry for squeamish listeners. And then Richie was struggling to get to stop that bleed, but also get something which we all carry, which is called hem clot, which is something that you stuffed into wounds in order to stop the blades or control blades. He was struggling to get that out online. Now my leg was bleeding, it was just a complete mess. It was a cluster, but it was a controlled cluster. If that sounds right, I managed to convince Richie to let go of his neck and I take control of the bleed was Richard angle his handler out stuffed in there and we began to work on him. And then the medic came over Vicki and pushed me out of the way and said go grab yourself go and sort itself out. And the rest, I suppose is strangely history because within an hour on the medical helicopter being evacuated back to Camp Bastion, and then within 24 hours, we were evacuated back to Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham to have operations and begin rehab.

Graham Allcott 11:56

Yeah, I forgot. That's the that's the big military hospital, isn't it? Because I used to live just down the road from there.

Ben Williams 12:02

Yes, he has a yoke. And then yeah, I lived in Selly Oak?

Graham Allcott 12:06

Yes, they do. Then they the queue is the massive hospital, isn't it?

Ben Williams 12:09

Yeah. And the military, you have? Yes. A few wards up there. And it was where all the where all the casualties from Afghan at the time of going back to the most morale lifting war? To be honest, for sure.

Graham Allcott 12:20

And that the bit that I was curious about is so you're flown into that area to do this seven day mission? And then you've already got a compound? So is the compound like just set up? Like really quickly? Then? Or are there more compounds that are a bit more kind of semi permanent, if you like.

Ben Williams 12:39

Yeah. So with with most. How it works is in time you fly into an area, you take over a local compound. So unfortunately, one a farmer may own or one which is disused, but you paid the farmer a lot of money to occupy that compound, which they never have a problem with. And you then occupy that compound. And if you're staying there on a permanent basis, you will then fortify sandbags, and hesco, which is sort of these big containers, sandbag containers, you fill up with concrete or rubble and just fortify the position. And we did a lot of that going round, and if not occupying bases that were already taken over by the British. But on that occasion, it was literally flying to London next to this compound, tell the farmer we're here to stay for a week, Here's your money. You can either stay or you can leave. But we're occupying this because of its tactical relevance in the area, and strict strategic relevance. And yeah, you just make it home of the most comfy home, my bed was right next to the sore cow Pap, been, which was really different. But um, yes, you just take them over and you live with what you have to and you live in their compounds till the operation is done.

Graham Allcott 13:54

And what's it like in the, obviously the hours when you're on duty, but you've also got to rest and stuff. So in those moments in the middle of that, like, what are you doing? Are you sitting there watching Netflix? Are you playing cards, like what does what's the life like when you're outside of those that there's big action moments.

Ben Williams 14:12

I've been talking most recently, in fact, in the last sort of four or five months since we've all been going through this more six months now.

Graham Allcott 14:20

And you're basically in a lockdown.

Ben Williams 14:22

You can't go outside the base without 12 heavily armed Marines, this threat for us at the time, although the Taliban were there fighting us that was you kind of had quite a lot of control over that. You'd never knew when they were going to hit you. But when they hit you, British forces are very good at hitting them back. But with the IDs, they will become in a hidden threat and you couldn't see him and I've really sort of tried to use that as an example for people at the moment to try and draw a new perspective from outside our walls. Right now. There's this hidden threat that we call COVID. And you have to protect yourself to go out into the open world right now and you have to put up PPA and you have to keep your space from people and it's very similar to how it'd be in combat operations. But equally inside the compound everyone very much right there as well, because it's what's documented jumps to the conclusion of fierce warfare. It's all the time it's constant battles, there's always a threat, there's never really much rest were actually was 90% boredom 10% action. And that 10% action is what happens outside the base, also what happens inside the base, obviously, you do get attacked here and there, and you have to defend it. But then there's also a lot of spare time 90% boredom is what the norm is for us out there. And that was cleaning weapons and get ready for the next patrol. There's planning for the next patrol and strategizing for going out and and just patrolling the local area, or is it an operation that we're flying on? You would you'd physically work out, you would do some administration, what we'd call administration, which is looking after the stores sorting out the water, that rations, you'd obviously cook, you'd have to provide century, which is security for the base. And it's very much this sort of fob routine. So forward, operating base is what we call them, when you have the routine of what you do within it, as well as your job, which is to go outside the wire and fight the enemy. But there is a lot of sitting around, sitting around with your own thoughts in the group has a group of men and obviously, Marines as they are there. And then we had attached colleagues from across the Navy and some army regiments. And yes, just when the time spent with one another, often around just a basic fire you never had internet didn't have TV, apart from one four by went to where we didn't have a TV, but you sort of had to punch it to get it working. And that was really it. But it was the most basic way of being a human being you're in a hostile environment where you need to survive, but you have very little to do, which is strangely quite nice and take away the hostility part. It's quite nice to be basic here and there. And I see a lot of that sort of relevance in what we all go through at the moment. Is this a threat outside our walls, we are sort of confined to our spaces at home right now to have to get on with a routine and keep ourselves occupied and we are living out a 90% boredom Timpson action for many of us,

Graham Allcott 17:17

I'd love to know what you feel like you learned from the 90% as well as what you feel like you learned from the 10%,

Ben Williams 17:24

I learned to take life a bit more seriously. And to do things that I want to do. The 10% you only realize is the sort of 10% when you have that 90% boredom to reflect. You don't think about the close call when the bullet hits the log next your head or the wall or the bomb goes off or the rounds land at your feet, you don't have time to think about all that was close, I'm going to go home and live the best life possible. That doesn't happen there. It happens in that 90% power where you are sat around with your thoughts thinking, Wow, that was really close today. Well, how fragile is life and unfortunately, a friend would be injured or killed. You realize how fragile that is. And actually when we get away from this hellhole, if we get away from this hellhole, what am I going to do when I get back and I think it's in the sort of 90% boredom, where you're left with your routine. And then just your thoughts where I found it did a lot of reflecting to think about what's next? What am I going to do when I get home? What's my career look like? What do I want to achieve? What haven't I been doing? Who didn't I say I love you too enough. All those things are very sort of small things, you've dreamt a lot about pizza for some reason. And that's where it really became clear. Yeah, you do your sort of processing of that 10% action during the 90% boredom. And that's where you make those decisions, and maybe write a few thoughts down, I was very much getting into personal development books at a time and thinking it was a place to read personal development books where they're telling you to be motivated, and all those things and what to do with your life where you're risking every day and having that sort of relevance rubbed in your face very quickly, and in quite a raw state. So yeah, a lot of reflection and very much perspective of what life really means to come back to we get back to the UK, which is what inevitably happened, but different to how I thought I'd come back. But uh, I got back home. There's

Graham Allcott 19:18

another story I'd love you to tell a little bit later, which is the one where you're pinned to the roof. But let's get on to that one. Because it feels like we're moving into talking about personal development there. And that's obviously what you are now focused on is taking this idea of the commando mindset into businesses, as a leadership and performance coach. And you've worked with some really interesting organizations, HSBC, and Volkswagen and Man United and various people like that. You talk in the book about the values of being a commando. And then you've also got this model the ice model, so I'd love to just hear more about that just so so we can get a sense of what can happen. Anybody in business learn from being Royal Marine commando?

Ben Williams 20:03

Yeah, that is. So the two different things the ice model i'll come on to in a second. But values I think the word values is I find sometimes quite overused, but underutilized. A lot of people, I say organizations, mainly people, say or businesses say they have values, but quite often, I think it was shocked to see how little they actually live them, or breathe them, or actually live out what they say is on the wall. When I joined the Marines, I thought I was courageous. I thought I was brave. That's why I decided to be a bouncer before I joined. And that got me into a whole heap of trouble as well. But I didn't know really what values were, I didn't really understand them. I didn't really take them seriously. And then sort of day one of commando training, you're almost issued a set literally, I gladly will believe in these by the end of the day. So sweeping and you spend weeks, like even months, like what the hell does excellence mean? And why do they want me to have such sort of humility? What does that even stand for? But when you do come on a training, and you go through it, and you begin to see what these words mean, when the commando instructors, they embody them, like they use these four words, and, and also our four spirits and our four values is excellence, integrity, self discipline, and humility. And our four spirits is courage, determination. And so selfishness and cheerfulness, mainly in the face of adversity.

Graham Allcott 21:28

I like the little words that are next to those so in the bookie, what it says is excellence is strive to do better.

Ben Williams 21:35

Yeah. Integrity is tell the truth, which also we have within the Marines, it's your virginity, you can only lose at once, which I tell people all the time, we uphold integrity, integrity is a huge thing. It brings out true characters and great people but self discipline, yeah, resist the easy option. Yeah. And then humility is respect the rights, diversity and values of others. Yeah, they are who we are. That's it's the Royal Marines is DNA. And it's passed on to every recruit, which comes through and if you don't embody him, you soon find yourself not really part of the team, or as much a part of the teams, which should be, because in my belief, and what I've come to realize over the years is those eight words are very human words. They're very basic, but very powerful words, excellence, and integrity is in the face of combat when your life is at risk. And I spoke about in the book about being on the blue door, where I had to go through it with my commander, it's just us too, and the Taliban were on the other side of it, there's no chance in hell I want to go through that door at all. Like I'd rather stay in my comfort zone on this side, keep it locked, and if they come in, we'll get them. But that's not how it works. That's not how combat works. Sometimes in combat, you have to risk in order to save others. And people see that as a hero thing. It's not a hero thing whatsoever. It's the fact that you live and breathe a set of values that help you do your job to the highest capability and abilities. So when you take that and shine it on the light of maybe how the business world is or what people use as their values to help power what they want to achieve. If you really tap into what drives What is your values what what makes you as a person it does, literally, it sounds cliche, but it becomes that moral compass that helps guide your decision making. I've said it to athletes, athletes are quite easy to work with on this one. But a great example is your training to do a marathon next year. If COVID is not here, a marathons the great day, you know, 26.5 miles to go out and test yourself with a bunch of other people raising money, but you don't just do 26.5 miles just off the cuff you have to train for and usually that training is three or four months in advance and where most marathons sit in the air, that means you're training through the winter months when it's dark. It's cold, the rains tapping at the window. And you can smell Polonaise being made in the kitchen and the conquerable red wine bottle. Of course it It feels more appealing to stay inside. And some people do they quit on that I need to go for a run today. But I'll stay inside. I'll go out tomorrow, and it's a bit drier, huh, oh, really. If you have a strong set of values, and you value the word integrity, you value the word excellence, you you say to yourself, it's horrible outside, I don't like it. But my training program says, I need to go outside, I need to go and do my run. And it might not be the best performance you ever do. It might not be the best run you do. But the difference is, in fact, your mindsets there to click and say I'm going to go and do it. And that's really like I find that fundamentally is down to what you value and how that then fuels your mindset. So yeah, the values are very important, very important to me, and I use them within my own business. Our businesses is reflected off the Marines ones because they're so powerful. We live and breathe them. And it's right right to do so.

Graham Allcott 24:49

And I suppose I was I was also thinking as you're talking there, I wonder if when you're so used to actually utilizing those values like day in day out and kind of using them to to guide your decision making process, which I think is what value should always be, I was just thinking, I wonder if that's really hard to sort of deprogram yourself. Obviously, if you're coming back and then using those same values to inspire others, then it's actually really easy, isn't it? Because it must be quite a habitual thing by now.

Ben Williams 25:16

Yeah, and it is. And sometimes it's not the best thing. Excellence and disciplining in combat is, well, it's everything. But an element of it is to make sure your weapon system is always clean and ready to be used at a moment's notice that your kit is serviced and works properly. So when you're out on the ground, and things go wrong, that you can actually function not just physically but with your equipment. But it has a knock on effect, we talk a lot about veterans coming home from certain situations and what it's done to him. But I remember coming home and having a huge Barney's with my wife, because she wasn't lining up the bean cupboard properly, like the bean cans and the sweet corn and the cupboards were just slightly messy, and bright aligner labels facing the same way. And that again, is you know, I was getting angry, I was volatile over it, because I'd come from an area which you need to be on top of your shit, that's what happens to then falling out of her because the beans weren't lined up, it's ridiculous, like I couldn't care less would have been covered looks like now because that sort of decompression of that habits are controlled, you know, I know where to, we don't need to have an excellent being covered to be excellent people. But it's just it's weird to sort of have to step away from that psyche or as well as sometimes it can be quite obsessive. But there is a balance, you know, you can be lacking it or you can be too obsessive, not every day, you want to go and rain and train. And that's that's kind of again, not what I'm implying. I find myself sometimes see the rain tapping on the window and go, Oh, wait till tomorrow morning. But it's how regular is that?

Graham Allcott 26:51

Yeah.

Ben Williams 26:51

Where is it a one off compared to? I've stayed in all week because it's been raining. There's a real difference there.

Graham Allcott 26:57

Yeah, I've definitely had weeks of marathon training where I've definitely stayed in a week if it's been raining, I have to

Ben Williams 27:04

get me on the phone when the next happen.

Graham Allcott 27:07

To talk about mindset there, and like, I'm totally with you that it can go too far. But we do need some kind of mindset, sort of structure and framework to work from and you've got this whole model called the ice model. Right. So inspiration, courage enactment. You want to just tell us about that.

Ben Williams 27:25

Yeah, not to give the ice model any sort of takeaway, its credibility, but it was really made up on the spot. And it was made up on the spot because I was currently serving in the Marines. I knew I was leaving a wanting to be a coach, I wanted to go into that world of speaking. I just, I don't know how I did it. But I blagged a speaking opportunity at Volkswagen, in fact, to the Volkswagen Group, which obviously have our DC at Skoda and commercial purpose as well underneath that

Graham Allcott 27:57

I've been around a few days myself, actually, as well.

Yeah,

The Milton Keynes?

Ben Williams 28:01

Milton Keynes, that's it. So

Graham Allcott 28:03

Yeah, yeah.

Ben Williams 28:03

Yeah. So that's like, oh, wow, like this one, I'm actually going to talk to him about and just made made this thing up on the spot as like, put a load of pictures together. And I've looked back at it, I've kept it, but I've looked back on it. Recently, actually, I was like, wow, what a cluster full of like, loads of different photos on one screen. And then the next was loads of writing. It just went against any sort of way of doing a PowerPoint. It literally is three words. So just put inspiration, courage, and then execution was the original he and I didn't really touch on it too much. And then mentioned it towards the end and sort of just blagged something around. I said, Yeah, to go through life, you've got to have something that inspires you, which in turn drives your courage and, and then helps you execute on the plan. And there was Yeah, it was a bit clumsy and a bit wishy washy, but um, someone came up afterwards. This was really interesting, that thing you were saying about what was it ice? And I'm looking at them going? Yeah, I think it was ice. I think that's what I put in the PowerPoint. And they mentioned is, it's interesting to have something that drives you, and then how that can build your courage to then help you take action. And they just suggested they were like, maybe don't use the word execution, though. There's probably another word around it execution sounds quite violent.

Graham Allcott 29:24

Coming from a mean, execution in business terms has its own meaning right around

Ben Williams 29:30

Yeah.

Graham Allcott 29:31

Putting goals into action and stuff. But obviously, when you're coming in with a military background, it can perhaps have other connotations.

Ben Williams 29:38

Yeah. And there was no getting away from it, that terrorism was at its height at that point as well, which wasn't nice. And I'm sort of trying to walk around inspiring people using that exact same word execution. And so yeah, it was time to change that very quickly. But actually, what it did do was draw out a way of thinking and that there's something around this is this inspiration, encouragement. When I started to trace back through my career, there was many points that I saw it very evidently. But there was a point when actually I was on a course in Wales. And it was a three week course. I mean, it's free course. And it was a very arduous course and the Brecon Beacons, which is obviously associated with Special Forces selection anyway. And I was actually on a similar type, of course, and we were out on our own navigating basically, and you would navigate through the hills, you'd hit checkpoints, then you'd move on to the next place. And we were on the sixth march of the week, and each March is a minimum of 20 kilometers, up to sort of 40 kilometers, you're on your own, you're navigating it all. You're carrying 50 pounds of kit, it's very tired. It's broken in the winter, a horrible place. Strangely, I love it now. But yeah, back then you didn't really like it. And I remember going up this hill and my quads, were in agony, everything was chasing, it was just horrible. And I couldn't see the top as well, because the fog was in so you can only see for about 50 meters. And I just lost sight of where I was at height. And said, this real moment to myself, I saw, crouched on one knee and felt sorry for myself, and had that quitting kind of way of thinking as are just I could just sit here now and then maybe walk off the hill and just give up. And then another person sort of appeared out the fog. And they appeared behind me and then came up next to me and they thought it was the top near the top like I did, and he bent over on one knee as well as fuck this. And I was like, Yes, shit, what we do real negative couple of minutes. But then he took something out of his pocket, and he looked at it. And it is massive sort of breath of air and then kissed whatever it was in his hand, I couldn't see what it was. But I knew it wasn't his map, or his compass is looking at something else. And then he just went, I'll see you later made the I didn't know this bloke is just on the same course. And off each other. They just he just stood up again and just walked off up the hill into the fog, like overts wasn't sprinting, he just moved and he was moving past me and now quicker than me. And I got a grip of myself as I can't come on Pete Berg and back home stuff, which is our pack and carried on myself. And I saw this guy later that evening, when we're having food. And I just went over as I had a conversation there an I was like The guy near next year, we had a moment again laws are fucking shit route, wasn't it? Yes, horrible. But over. I said, Now I've got to ask you something. They said, You took something out your pocket, didn't you and you had a look at it. And it just jumped to his pocket straightaway then and then there and then on the spot, as I was asking him what it was. And he took it out. And it was on one side was it was a laminated sort of credit card sized picture in his dog, it has been through the middle back. And on the front was his daughter. And then on the back was a picture of a Range Rover and a beach holiday. And like obviously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out. But I asked him anyway, I said, What is this? And he coined a just went, Oh, this is my inspiration card. whenever I'd like hit a wall, or I'm feeling fatigued, or I'm just, I just struggling to see the clarity of why I'm doing what I'm doing. I just remind myself of what inspires me. And it all linked his daughter, which he doesn't live with it as a divorced parent. And he wants to be on this course because you'll learn more money if he succeeds, and can drive around in the Range Rover and take to the beach. And it always stayed with me. And as you know, years later after speak to that person at Volkswagen and I started to sum it up in my head as to what this actually helps all of us. We all have this for him on that mountain that day for the guy I was with. He was thinking of quitting like I was he wanted to give up. And he took this thing from his pocket which inspired him and reminded him of why he's on that course. And that doesn't take away the pain. That doesn't take away the suffering that doesn't take away the adversities that he's going through it that spot. But what it does do is it it gains courage, it builds courage within him It drives that self belief and reminds him of why he's there to do what he's doing. Which then encourages him to take a few more steps forwards, which is what he became was in that change from execution to an acronym. And that's really how the ice model looks and what it is and, and I've written it and spoken written about and spoken about for a few years now. And I talked passionately about its simplicity. Simon Sinek talks about his why how what This to me is a little bit more personal is very much for the person of what does inspire you. What gets you out of bed each morning or what doesn't get you out of bed each morning. Where does your courage permit and where does it decrease? Where is it not present within your life where you want it to be? And how do you take steps towards what you want to achieve and and in other areas of your life? Why don't you take steps forward to what you want to achieve. And for many of us having something that inspires us, it becomes the ultimate driver. You know, I've lived this By myself very recently, really difficult time to be in business, it's very hard have to push very hard. And there's been times when I've come home, but I got to do what's the point I give up and be a coach or just do something else. But then I look at my two adorable children who's three and seven. And it reminds me that I need to go out the door and continue going. And they build that courage, they build that self belief to an act and take steps forward. And it's not easy. It's not meant to be easy, but it's meant to be very hard. But that's when you know what inspires you is, it's truly a driver for you that it helps you build that courage to take steps towards what you want to achieve. And over the years, it's just developed into something that I speak openly and passionately about. And I think a lot of people see relevance in it, because the moment you're aware of it and conscious of it, actually, of course, it makes sense. Having something inspires you helps build courage to act on what you want to achieve,

Graham Allcott 35:58

For sure, from challenging circumstances is where you get the most growth, right. So

Ben Williams 36:03

Yeah,

Graham Allcott 36:03

So I think your story really speaks to that. I also love the fact that the guy has labeled it his inspiration card, like it's a really conscious thing of I'm going to be in this really hard situation, I better have some inspiration. And I'm going to laminate that and put it in my pocket and take yours think it's a really nice, very intentional way of thinking about it. But I think you saw it, you know, you sort of do yourself down there a little bit with the whole, I turned up and just blogged it. And these three words, because I suppose the point of all of that is that often we don't know what we know, until we crystallize it. Right? So we're talking earlier about how there was all those long days and nights where you're kind of sat in the bunker thinking and processing stuff. And so I guess it's like, you know, once you get back, you can start to really make sense of what you learn in some of those really difficult moments and on the Brecon Beacons, right?

Ben Williams 37:00

Yeah. And it does, you summarized it perfectly there in the sense of crystallizing it. Because it was only that when it was pointed out there, and then on the spot by that person from Volkswagen, where I thought, I made this up, I just stumbled upon it for this presentation, but I've been living it, you've been living it, they've been living it.

Graham Allcott 37:19

Yeah.

Ben Williams 37:20

For me, if I had to have something, I was only going to go two ways in life. If I didn't come away from drugs, I was going to end up killing myself or ending up in prison to not very good places to be. And this scene devall Marines that is that becomes an inspiration. And the inspiration isn't just the advert. It's reminded me of when I was going to Portsmouth as a young boy, or hiding in bushes, pretending to be a commando, that inspire you to make a difference within your life. And you get that energy back. Why am I doing these drugs? Why am I putting my life away when I have an opportunity. And the inspiration is gradual, you know, it's a big inspiration. But there's also small one says I want to earn a Green Beret become a commando. But I can't just do that overnight, I have to feel inspired to ditch drugs, I have to be inspired to get fit, I have to be inspired to apply, you know, the moment you're applying you through the gates, that doesn't mean it's all all over the journey has only just begun. And you have to then find inspiration. within every week. You know, when you're in the mud, you're tired, you're cold, and someone's called you nothing but an asshole or a you do question as to why you're there. But then you reach in and you find that thing that drives you. I'm here to achieve this. I'm here to I'm inspired to not go back to who I was. There's so many things which in turn increases that courage. And yeah, it comes true when you speak to the civilian world and go, Oh, yeah, it's not just three letters, three words that I've just made up. It's something that we've all whether consciously or unconsciously lived in one way or another, we have all been inspired by something that builds our courage to help us enact what we want to achieve. And some do it more frequently than others. Some are more conscious of it than others, but we all do do it. And that's really now the mission of ice is to point it out to everyone within everyone's life to someone it might be climbing Everest to another person, it might just simply be making ends meet next week, but we all find it within ourselves. And it's really fun to talk about it because people go so simple, but I've been doing it and that's the whole point. That's exactly the conversation I have with myself. Wow, that's so simple, but I've been doing it

Graham Allcott 39:26

And that experience of the Brecon Beacons. So, you talk in the book and we were talking earlier earlier about your contact to is an agent in football and you ended up taking people from the England football team up to the Brecon Beacons, right as well. And

Ben Williams 39:41

that was in Devon

Graham Allcott 39:42

similar drills. That was in Devon.

Ben Williams 39:44

Yeah, that was but similar life. Yeah.

Graham Allcott 39:47

They got, I mean, in a in a similar place. So tell us about that. How did that come about and what was the What do you think Gareth Southgate was trying to get out of that? What was his what was his interest in putting the players through that kind of sort of very physically punishing routine.

Ben Williams 40:03

I know, I definitely know one of the reasons and but I know a couple of the reasons but how it came about was England were preparing for the World Cup in 2017. I was at the commando Training Center as a corporal, working with all Marines recruits, and I was just finishing up my career. I think I had about nine months left to do maybe a year left to do, it ended up extended in the end. But uh, yeah, I was preparing for the end of my career because I was getting medically discharged because of my hearing. And I had made the decision that yes, I want. I liked working with recruits. I like seeing people go on a similar journey that I've been on before coming from many walks of life, to then begin their career as a commander. And yeah, and I also enjoyed being part of it to keep the standard stuff as well, keeping those which didn't have it within themselves to make a cut. Although on reflection, most of us do have it within ourselves. And it was at that time that the FAA or England someone got in touch with the Royal Marines to say, How can we have a bit of an experience of you guys to ready ourselves for this. And I heard it through the grapevine is 2000 people, civilians, recruits and marine serving at the commando Training Center, and they're looking for five people. That is going to be in the mix of this one. And it just so happens that my name got put forward to be part of it. And I was picked, and I was part of a five or six man team there to take the England football team on an experience that they'll never forget. And when I would never forget. And I remember, we were just so much planning for it as well. And the guys I was serving with on that training team to others were actually involved in it as well. And we spent so much time laughing, giggling up to the point of doing it because we were it was just surreal. It was just they really gonna come down. Like everyone thought it was a joke like that it wouldn't actually unfold in the end. But they did the I think it was the Wednesday before they came down. We got the heads up saying Yeah, it's definitely on. And then the Friday, we the small team of us prepared the kit for their arrival and waited. And there, the inventory were actually meant to get picked up by helicopters up at some George's Park and flowing down, which would have taken about 45 minutes, maybe an hour to get them down there. What actually happened was the helicopters were redirected and couldn't pick up the England football team. So they had to get a coach, which kind of spoiled I think the first initial shock of capture that they've gone from Yeah, you gotta get on helicopters to just get on the bus last and have a four hour journey down.

Graham Allcott 42:46

Yeah.

Ben Williams 42:46

They got to the training center a bit later than I expected. And I remember I was on Woodbury common, which is one of the commando training areas. And I was there with a team and we were all set up ready for their arrival. But the England team are going to sorry, is there a train to the England team, we're actually going to the camp first to get all their care, put on military fatigues and then get a sim kit to use to come up to the Commonwealth. And I remember hearing that they'd arrived to a cab and instantly It was like all six of us were just excited schoolchildren like Oh, they come in to kind of get a little bit starstruck before they even arrive are Sergeant tough Prosser was he said last make sure you get a grip yourself though when they come through I want them to think rules steelie Royal Marines no giddy kids every night? Yes. Again and again. Laughter ourselves and then the the military vehicles turned up with the team on it England team and they will start going out one by one. I was in the woods watching back through and they all started come creeping into the woods one by one and they look really intimidated and it was just so surreal. It's like oh shit. There's Harry Kane. Like, oh my god, there's Gareth Southgate. They are actually here. Like inside. I was just like a little kid looking at another one of the corporals. Danny we were just smirking at one another going, is this really happening? And then it was like now it's go time now switch to face completely as a fucking gang, get a grip yourself and get over now we're looking at southcoast stop dorlin. And we introduced them into our world. And for the first few hours, it was Carnage, because they just they're not military and we're trying to get him to do military things.

Graham Allcott 44:22

So was garrison kind of on a level with everybody else then?

Ben Williams 44:26

Yes, yeah. So from

Graham Allcott 44:28

like one of one of the team? Yes, I was in the same boat.

Ben Williams 44:32

There was no ranks. There was no captain, no manager. It was the kit man and coach driver all the way through to being the manager and everyone in between. Wow. And that was one of the first things he wanted to do was bring this cohesion and bring this unified way of thinking there was no player. There was no kit man. There was no manager. We are England. That was the approach.

Graham Allcott 44:56

Yeah.

Ben Williams 44:56

And I can't say what they are because they hold them very close to their chest, but They arrived with three values as well. And each one of those values represented the line, each line on the shirt. And it was about every single person part of the England setup, understanding what those values truly mean, and how they work for the cohesion of the club as opposed to each individual bear. Because all the way up to that point, Manchester United players would sit with Manchester United players, Tottenham would have Tottenham Arsenal set of Arsenal at the training camp and and Garifuna to get rid of that. And this was a way of doing it. And, you know, they went through very challenging situations of assault courses, some big runs, but not runs as maybe we would do normally out and trainers, but boots and heavy kit on they did the commando endurance course, which is one of the four tests, they spent a day in the urban combat environment, learning how to clear buildings, and they learn about us, they learn about our ethos, our values, who we are, and what it means to be a Royal Marine and what it means to be to live by a set of standards set of values and what it means to be part of a team. And I think that really was one of the biggest things that they took away that it's it's not down to the individual it's down to the entire group, whether you're ironing a shirt or you're making the actual strategic patterns on on the pitch with what you see happening with tactics or you're actually kicking the ball. Everyone's part of it. And had they won the World Cup or the sat here and gone. Yeah, all me everything I said

Graham Allcott 46:35

At the palace to pick up your OBE to you know, congratulate your

Ben Williams 46:41

night they were playing Oh, who did we get knocked out by our car? I can't remember who was but uh, the night they got knocked out the World Cup, the two hours before we had a phone call. Because I was with the training team, which took them through literally watched the entire world cup together. Yeah, we got a phone call saying Guys, if they've witnessed, you're gonna have to be in London in two days to go on this morning. Talk about how you've helped the England football team get to the finals.

Graham Allcott 47:04

Oh, wow.

Ben Williams 47:05

So I was watching that going, I've got this book coming out to do all these things moving away from the brain to go into coaching thinking, Oh, my God, oh, they win. Cuz it'll not only help the World Cup, but it's going to launch my career. And last, but they lost in a way that I personally watched that game and thought they were just absolutely fatigued. And when you're fatigued, it means you've put so much effort into something that you're tired and you can almost no longer push on. And I genuinely am immensely proud to have worked with him. I'm immensely proud to stay in touch with him as well, but immensely proud of what that England football team was at that point in the World Cup. Yeah, it's changed a little bit since but it reflected what I think a marine thinks. And you can tell they listen, which really demonstrates the degree of an immense degree of humility as well.

Graham Allcott 47:57

And what an amazing experience, though, I mean, just to like, like, I've been at a few of those where you sort of find yourself at weird dinners as well. And you're sort of sitting next to people that you've seen on TV, and it just kind of feels a bit surreal, right. But to put people through their paces like that, and to have to work so closely with people must have been totally surreal experience.

Ben Williams 48:18

Yeah. And there was a point it was actually on the first evening when the sort of giddiness had worn off and the chaotic serials that we put them through done, were actually all just sat around in small little groups in a wood in Devon, and it was very basic. That's what it is you people call it the caveman TV was sat there watching little fires, and I'm sat with the physio, it was me the physio there was someone else one of the other players was there and Harry Kane.

Graham Allcott 48:48

Yeah.

Ben Williams 48:48

And we were just sharing a drink sharing a hot drink that we've made on the rations on the fire with the rations. And, and I asked her In fact, it got so chilled out and relaxed and how we were as humans, I started moaning about how much I've just paid to go to London karate. And as I cuz he just got back from Dubai. And he was really humbled parasite. Yeah, I just got back from holiday from Dubai and looking forward to sort of international break now, as I call it. Yeah, I've just booked a holiday to Lanzarote is because we've all grand as in price has gone up recently in holiday. And he just he just went along with it. He just nodded is like yeah, they have gone up somewhere. And then I thought he pays four grand for dinner.

Graham Allcott 49:27

That's probably like, yeah, like his bar bill for one night.

Ben Williams 49:30

Yeah. I was kind of dawned on me after I said it. I was like, why am I blown into Harry Kane, but, but he liked it. And I asked him the sort of normal cliche question of what's it like to score in front of 30,000 people? And he thought, sorry, 80,000 people, and he is really honest, and it was quite humbling to hear how he spoke of it. But then he asked me questions and he was like, what's it like to go to war? And he actually looked into the fact that he did not become a player and be successful. He wanted to join the military and was ready It was just a really honest, open conversation, I was quite honest with what it is like to go to war. And I truly believe he definitely took away a little bit of what I said there.

Graham Allcott 50:11

Let's talk about a couple of other things before we finish. So in the book, you talk about five steps in planning a goal. So I think this is, again, a really interesting thing, in that you've probably spent a long time sat there thinking about what works and what doesn't in a really specific, really full on context. And I just wonder what the crossovers with this stuff might be into kind of productivity and business and, and making stuff happen. So tell us about the five steps in planning a goal.

Ben Williams 50:43

Yeah. I'm one of those people which aren't too religious on goal setting as well. But it's part of what I do, in a sense of my daily routine. And what I coach and teach people is because in the military, we have that sort of do the basics, right? And the hardest stuffs a bit easier to do. And I see my business partner, Tom, oh, he does like the lengthiest goal setting routines. It takes hours. And it doesn't fit me. And what I wanted to write into commando mindset was because everyone's got their own different opinion, a different way of doing goals. I just wanted to give my own perspective, and I broke it down into the five sort of steps of what I'd been following. Basically, my entire career, the goals that helped me get away from doing drugs all the way through to the Marines, and then now into business. And it's very simple. You know, step one is, is picking a goal that actually motivates you, you can instantly jump towards New Year's and think of how many people set new year's resolutions, they're going to be a vegan, they're going to do dry January, they're going to go to the gym every day, they're going to save some money, and then you get midway through January, so Oh, yeah, I forgot this was the tightest month of the year, I'm desperate for a beer because the kids are killing me. And I gonna have a steak and I don't know where my gym card is. I'm not saying everyone does that. But it's easy to come across people are like, yeah, I kind of get to the middle. And then it goes. And that's really because it's sort of off the cuff. It's done in a bit of a, I'll give something a go fashion where to me, this links to your inspiration, what truly drives you, what truly motivates you? And that's why you need to pick something that motivates you. Are you running a race because you want to run the race or you run a race because someone else is running it? And you think you should? And there's a difference between that is

Graham Allcott 52:29

That's the thing with a lot of new year's resolutions, they're generally should based on what we think society is telling us that we should be doing right?

Ben Williams 52:40

Yeah. And we feel compelled to do it don't refill last year new me, I don't know what this next year is going to bring for a lot of people and what we set but I stopped kind of holding myself account to those news resolutions. Now I don't really talk about them. You know, if I say anything, it will be what's something I might want to achieve this year that I've not done before. That's really what it is. When it comes to goal setting. Why do we need to leave it to the 31st of December or the first of January to make that decision? The irony is as well, I used to do this and black right? I'm going to be dry all January not drink yet. Five past midnight is still drinking. Like sit there the champagne glass half cup girl, I'm going to have a dry month

Graham Allcott 53:23

On the second. Yeah.

Ben Williams 53:25

Exactly. And for me that didn't fit well. I was always like, why start in the second? It doesn't. So when you really look at it, it's it's understanding what motivates you? And why can't you just begin that? Right? The second, you know, some of the people I work with who I coach personally, I hear hear him quite often. And I'm looking forward to giving this a go, I want to do that. I don't know when to begin this, do it now. That's there is some time there is planning, there is preparation, but you can start what you want to achieve. Right The second even if that's just by thinking of it or writing something down, but it has to be linked to what motivates you what one is actually driving. The second one is is time and date, you know, you have to be accountable. When do you want to achieve this by? What is it that you want to achieve? For what reason, which is that whole motivation, that's step one point, but when you actually going to achieve it by because that's the other thing that I see a lot of people make mistakes in is I'm going to do this. But I don't know when I'm going to do it by Well, actually, when we decide to choose that date, it actually helps us to work backwards, you know, I want to be in this position by that point. You know, health and fitness is such an easy way to look at it. When do you want to do the race? Or when do you want to be that way? And how would you work back from that instead of trying to work forwards all the time. So well? What do I need to do next week? It's like actually, when's the end date and what you're going to be like a week before that end date, how are you going to get to that point and then kind of work it back in hurdles like that and take graduate steps forward.

Graham Allcott 54:52

And I think like just being specific is a really important part of all of this, which I guess this is on to number three, which is thinking SMART goals, right and setting your goal recipe.

Ben Williams 55:02

Yeah, step. So step three is using a recipe. Strangely, you wouldn't just start baking a cake without a recipe or a method to do it. And again, a cliche point, but I wanted to put a constructive strategy in there, which I think we all know, a lot of people have come across smart. You know, if you're thinking about the recipe, it's having that ingredients, what resources do you need, how much time and what's the method you're going to use to achieve it? When you look at smile, it's something that we've seen a lot within the business world smarter, though, the smart plan, sorry, it's we see a lot within the business world, we see even a score, I remember hearing it, but actually, it is a very relevant strategy. It's a very good strategy to have, I used to use it with the recruits to make sure that they were achieving the goals they need to achieve to move on to the next week. I used it in my own careers in businesses. And it's very relevant. And that's because S stands for having a specific strategies, you're going to set this goal that motivates you, you're going to have your time and your date you want to achieve it by but what's the specific route for getting there? Is it your business plan? Is it? Is it a physical training program? Is it planning how you're going to save to buy the wedding ring? Or the engagement ring to ask him or her to marry? You know, so many different ways of looking at this? And when it's applied more towards life? The end is measurable know, at how you're going to measure it to get to that point, how are you going to know you're hitting your KPIs, your your key points you want to achieve, but also is it within your remit? And that kind of leads into attainable? I would love to go to the moon? Is there a chance I'm going to get to the moon? Probably not. So I can kind of put that goal to one side if the opportunity ever comes up? Yeah, jump on me.

Graham Allcott 56:45

Get Harry Kane LNG to cash he could probably go with Ilan.

Ben Williams 56:49

Yeah, a regular Bopha or ring area, but it but there's things that, you know, we can't achieve. It's natural that we can't achieve everything in this world. But what is attainable, that you can definitely achieve? And that's not down to a skill that's not down to almost ability as well, there's so many things that you can achieve that many of us we restrict ourselves from doing because we think it's outside of our skill zone, it's outside of our ability zone. Actually, most of the time it's outside of our comfort zone. And we have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. We have to embrace those fears that we look at and say, Oh, that's not attainable. Is it not attainable? for the reason that you actually physically can't achieve it? And yes, that then It's out of the question, or is it not attainable? Because you don't think you can achieve it. And again, that's what I really work hard with people is to get them to try and achieve something that they don't think they can achieve. It's not that they can't achieve that they don't think they can achieve and you show someone that they can they go and do it. Again, I'm trying to speak from personal experience. That's definitely what I've done and relevant, you know, what are using the correct strategies to get there? is it relevant to what you actually want to achieve? That kind of goes back to step one does actually motivate you? Are you doing this for the right reasons, or you're doing it for someone else, and the t is time bound, which again, leads to point two. And then we move on to Step four, which is breaking that sort of long term goals into shorter, small goals. I remember being in training and thinking I've bitten off more than I can chew within two, three days of being there. Because I'd focused on the end by seeing the final trip and training, I'm thinking about getting this green beret, or what an amazing achievement to get there. Actually, there's 32 weeks that stand between me in that moment. And the long term goal, the inspiration is to put your hands in that green piece of cloth and wear of pride and join the elite. That doesn't come overnight that has to come through day in day out adversity difficulty or learning curve, which is like the hockey stick model is just straight up. And it's very difficult. And so the long term goal was to finally get to that point, and achieve passing those four commodity tests and becoming a marine. But the short term goals is getting through that next day, what are we got on this week that I have to get correct to make sure I can move to the next week, otherwise, I'm gone. And we have to do this. We all have a TV but you got to take the steps in the middle, you have to have the stepping stones however you want, where you want to look at it. Breaking that big long term goal down into smaller steps is very healthy to achieve what we want to achieve. I want to be this way, but I want to be this way by next week. And it helps us with our success. You know the pleasure chemicals if we're aware of our endorphins, oxytocin, dopamine and serotonin that we can actually hit many landmarks or little milestones between now and the big the big achievement is well then we can be conscious of how good we're feeling and how much sort of progression we're making towards what we want to achieve as well. Having that long term goal is good, it's healthy to have but we've got to have something in the middle that can keep Focused along the way. Because when adversity strikes and it gets difficult, you've got to have those little reminders that to say, hey, go, this makes you feel good. It's not as big as you want it to be. But it makes you feel good. We're making steps towards what we want to achieve.

Graham Allcott 1:00:12

And then the final bit is sharing this with a friend, which I guess when you're, you know, you're talking about goals and motivation, in the context of everybody's probably going to go through some really hard times when you're, when you're commando, there's going to be those days where you need somebody else to remind you of your purpose like that kind of that sense of having other people on board as part of the journey must be really important, right?

Ben Williams 1:00:34

Yeah, you, no matter what you do in life, you're going to have low moments. And those low moments are easy to face when someone's near you. Or who is bought in on on your own ambition. I think it was Week Four of training, still a civilian. And if you wanted to leave training, you would write a letter to your troop commander. So your troops about 30, maybe 40 strong. And it'd be you'd have a captain or Marines captain who is the troop commander and then a sergeant and then for corporals, you'd basically just write a letter polite letter saying I wish to terminate my career in the war Marines. It's not for me, and I want to leave you know, every recruit has that right up to a certain point. And I was writing my letter out because I just, I just thought, my depth, I just didn't think I could do this. This quickly ramping up. I'd already injured myself, I was feeling a little bit sorry for myself. And I was I was writing my letter up and one of the lads in my room walked by me in his big tall blonde lab called daymo. Sort of epitomized what marine looks like, what you do. So like, basically got busted, and wrote my letter. And we're in six man rooms, so he didn't have much privacy. You write your letter. So yeah, I'm gonna go by. I don't think this is right. For me. It's more for you guys. You're better at this. And he just convinced me so that I don't have that in because I was going to hand it in as soon as written the letter, but don't have it in. Just wait till the season and see how today goes. Because in training, you wake up in the morning. You just feel tired. And when you feel like that you feel pretty sad. And it's not you get those morning blues. I don't want to I just want to have the energy when I'll come on. Promise me. You don't have it until tonight. Okay. All right. I'll leave it. So tonight, I'll get through today was the day to get through. The evening came and went and the letter in and the doors and open ship captains go home. Do it tomorrow. And then I went back to the room. And David was so just may just give it to the end of the week. We'll have we'll get through this week. We'll have a beer that weekend. Let's see how we get through it. And I agree does Okay. All right, I'll put it away. I'll leave it in my locker for some time. I got to the end of that week. And then 20 weeks went by. And then in week 24 daymo had his own load moment. And he has he was having a letter writing moment where he didn't want to be in training anymore, because he was finding something very difficult. And the conversation reversed. And he stayed. And we both passed out to be more Marines, we both went to Afghanistan. In fact, we were both in the first, our first contact with the enemy together on the wall, fighting the enemy, side by side, which is quite uncommon to go through your career all the way up to that point with people. And that's what it's about, would we ever be on the wall together had one of us not turn around, don't don't write letter, you know, stick with it. But he knew what I was trying to achieve. And I knew what he was trying to achieve when it mattered for him. And that's why I really believed in that you should share with the right people. It's not about going on Instagram and saying I'm doing this. It's about being with people you trust to say, Look, I'm a little bit overweight. But next year, I want to complete a marathon. Will you support me on this? Yeah, of course. What a great thing to do, though, if I'm thinking of going to build a business. Same thing I had my wife, we've got mortgage, two cards to pay for some children's pay for Would you mind shocking, you're dropping because I need to go out of business. Okay, let's do this properly, and I'll support you. And then what she wants to do that's healthy for us. Because when things get difficult, and they're hard, exactly like it was for myself and that guy on the mountain that I now know what inspires him. So the next time I see him, and he's having a down day, I can give him a little nudge say remember your daughter and that Range Rover can do the same for me. And if we keep it too much too locked up in one another, around ourselves, it's harder to keep progressing forward when things do get difficult, which they inevitably do. So Step five is about sharing that journey with someone, someone you trust, someone who can relate to what you're doing, and someone who knows you that has someone who can also hold you to account.

Graham Allcott 1:04:39

Yeah, I talk a lot about a productivity ninja as a human and not superhero. And I guess that's part of the same thing, right? Like we all have those moments where even with the best of intentions where we're far from, far from having any special powers to get us out of a situation or get us to where we need to be.

Ben Williams 1:04:56

And that's why I speak very openly about myself. As a Marine, everyone sort of thinks you're so courageous to roll it fearless people were actually if you're honest and say, No, most of the time, you're scared, most of time you're worried was tiny fearful. Most of the time you wanted to quit most the time you wanted to give up, but it was the people around you kept you going. That's very healthy. And it's healthy to admit that, but you have that in your life.

Graham Allcott 1:05:21

And let's finish just talking about fear, then. That's a nice little segue. So you've got a whole chapter on Face your fears in the book. And the bit that stood out for me was the idea of tips for fear free sleep. And I know it's just a little kind of little box in a much bigger chapter. But it just sort of struck me that there must have been times where you've been in really difficult situations, and then you but what you really need at that moment is to sleep and rest and recover and be ready for the next day. And you talk in this little section of the book, a few things in there are probably the things that most people would expect. So, you know, doing 30 to 40 minutes exercise during the day, don't eat too close to bedtime, avoid the blue screens and meditation. But what really struck me was that having a 32nd cold shower, an hour before bed.

Ben Williams 1:06:14

Yeah, it's not the most pleasurable thing to do. And especially now we're in the winter months, but it was something I stumbled across a while ago, which I started implementing. Again, I'll be honest, I don't do this every day. This isn't about having a cold shower is not a religion. It's the odd thing that helps and a cold shower works in two ways. When you have it in the morning it it spikes that those endorphins, that adrenaline, because you haven't cold embrace, and it's it's obviously nice to do, but it does wake you up and sparks you up. What it actually does towards the latter part of the day is when you're immersed in cold water, for sure, not too long, a piece of time but when you immerse in cold water, it also helps secrete more melatonin, which is the chemical that helps regulate our sleep. And having a cold shower right before bed is not going to be too helpful. But having a cold shower sort of that run up towards bedtime is is proven to help release more melatonin when you snuggle up you get warm your body is creating that chemical that then regulates your sleep pattern that helps you fall into a deeper sleep. That's what a lot of us sort of long form search for when we're feeling stress when we're feeling worried about something and and yeah, the the the first few tips, everyone knows it's whether they implement it for a start, you know, getting 30 to 40 minutes. Exercise is good for us. We know this. It's good for our physical health, and our mental health but it does fatigue as I sometimes go running in the evening, and I know my sleep is disrupted because of it. I went running this morning and I know I'm going to sleep way better this evening. I feel really chilled out today. I feel relaxed. I can go home elite sort of around six seven o'clock go to bed at 10 I read a great book I'm reading at the moment green lights by Matthew McConaughey, unbelievable read and begin to switch off and even the meditation a lot of people know that. I don't I'm not really someone I suggest it but I'm not someone who sits around and meditates the conventional way of quiet space of some form of ambient music on or something I actually gained my mindfulness and meditation from running in the dark on trails because you have to be 100% present, but that's good as well that kind of fatigues the mind and body which you want in order to have a better night's sleep. But the cold shower Yeah, I had to get it in there because it's it just those little things that we just don't know where other people stumble upon and say are really helpful we melatonin we need to release melatonin to regulate our sleep in and get our head down.

Graham Allcott 1:08:47

I was saying someone a couple of weeks ago how I was really jealous of their sea swimming. But whenever I try and do you sea swimming, even in the summer, I'm just like, oh my god, it's so cold. And I know what you need to do is you do the Wim Hof Method. And then the Wim Hof Method is all about you build up your body's tolerance to cold showers. And then by the end of it, you're doing kind of two minute freezing cold showers in the morning and all the rest of it. And I was like yeah, it doesn't sound like fun. But it just for me, this feels like one of those ideas that just keeps coming around and knocking me on the head at the moment. And it's like, I feel like there might be a new year's resolutions coming on for next year.

Ben Williams 1:09:28

But this is where it all comes back to being conscious about what you're doing, isn't it because I don't religiously, have a cold shower every day. I don't religiously not watch blue screen before bed. I don't religiously read a book and that's me personally, I'm not too hard on myself or missing days because I find it's within balance of how I'm feeling like today. I feel really chilled out because I ran this morning so I've done one of those things. Maybe I'll probably read my book before bed tonight. The two of those things But I know I'm gonna have a nice sleep. But if I'm in a stress state or fifth day awards date, which we can actually find ourselves in as parents is just normal life or in a business, that okay, maybe I need to sort of get that exercise in early not eat so late. Maybe I go meditate today to 20 minutes listening to just river water, go and do that run, have that culture, it's the time and place to do it. We don't have to really push ourselves as hard as we think we should. We just need to push ourselves into those areas of like cold showers and stuff when we know we should, because it's going to benefit us.

Graham Allcott 1:10:36

And I suppose that's the paradox, isn't it a lot of the time is that the times where we really need additional routine or additional self care, those times when we're really under stress are often the times where we neglect ourselves the most. Right? So I suppose that's the real learning from this isn't it's like, if you're feeling that right now, you know, don't think that you're too busy to do the things that are going to help you sleep or to do the things that are going to reduce your stress. It's really important that in those moments to double down on that and make sure you give it more attention, not less.

Ben Williams 1:11:09

Yeah, it's so easy to have a drink, eat bad food, not exercise, when you're feeling stressed is that but that's the point where we need to take most controller action, those things in order to keep our momentum up.

Graham Allcott 1:11:22

Well, it's been really great to chat to you, Ben. And just fascinating conversation. So just tell us how people can find out more about you and your work and how people can get hold of the book.

Ben Williams 1:11:33

Yeah, so my work currently is like everyone's is a bit all over the place. If you want to get directly in contact, or any coaching or working with anyone's business or teams, you can go straight to find your edge coaching.com, but my book commando mindset is out January the 14th 2021. I keep saying to everyone, just grab yourself a copy, it might be a nice way to start completely new year considering what we've been through this year. And all my details are within that book as well. quite lively on Instagram, Ben underscore Williams underscore cm. And yeah, I look forward to hearing from people.

Graham Allcott 1:12:06

Great stuff. Thanks so much for being on beyond busy.

Ben Williams 1:12:08

Cheers. Thanks, Graham.

Graham Allcott 1:12:16

So thanks, again to Ben for being on the show. And thanks as ever, to Mark Stedman, my producer on the show for particularly for piecing all of this on together, and to our hosts for the show. Before you go, I want to tell you really quickly about next week's episode. It's a very, very special one. So next week is beyond busy Episode 100. We're going to be basically doing a best bits episode. So lots of my favorite little bits of conversation, we're going to be revisiting some of our very well known guests that we've had just been lucky to talk to on the show. And yeah, just really excited about this compilation episode that we're doing next week for beyond busy 100. So yeah, stay tuned for that one, don't miss it, it's gonna be a really exciting one. So that's next week, beyond busy episode 100, and there'll be a little bit longer than us. And the idea is that, especially when we're in this lockdown period, I want to just really be putting out as much value and content and stuff that will help people as possible and just keep your spirits up, I had my little blip before Christmas, where I just went into a bit of a period of depression funk and I wrote about it on on my wrap up for the week email, which you can sign up to GrahamAllcott.com and you can find that piece actually, we'll just put a link to it in the show notes. But we put some of the weekly emails just out on my websites blog as well. So we'll put a link to that piece. Which was what not to do when the wheels fall off. But yeah, it's one of those things where I'm sort of starting the year thinking, Oh, God, I just really need to be putting out positivity here. And if that helps one person, then it kind of feels like everything I do from my little shed is is worthwhile. So if you're getting any value from this stuff, then let me know and let me know also, if there's stuff that I can help with, or you think would be helpful for me to be putting out just to keep people's spirits up. Let's do that for each other raise each other up over the next few weeks. So keep each other safe. So yeah, next week is beyond busy Episode 100 I can't quite believe we're at that milestone. Feels pretty amazing to be in the triple figures as of next week. So yeah, strap in for it. It's gonna be a long one but it's gonna be packed with really interesting people and good conversations. So it'll be one to grab a sandwich for grab coffee for Absolutely. But yeah, it's gonna be good. So, next week beyond busy 100 strap in,

See you then. Take care Bye for now.