How to Raise Entrepreneurial Kids with Jodie Cook
Graham Allcott 0:07
This is Beyond Busy. I'm Graham Allcott. I'm the author of a number of books, including the global bestseller how to be a productivity ninja. And I'm the founder of Think Productive. We help people to make space for what matters and get more done. And we partner with some of the world's leading companies who share our mission to transform the world of work. Beyond Busy is where I explore the often messy truths and contradictory relationships around topics like work-life balance, happiness, and success, and explore with interesting people what makes them tick. In short, this is where we ask the bigger questions about work.
My guest today is Jodie Cook. Jody is an entrepreneur, a power lifter and a writer. She writes regularly for Forbes and is also the author of a number of different books, including how to raise entrepreneurial kids. And we catch Jody here in a quite an interesting spot, having just sold her business, JC social media, and reflecting on her experiences of leading her team through the pandemic. And then through that sale. We talk about why she's determined not to make plans just yet how to get mentored by your heroes, and much more. This is Jodie Cook. Welcome back to Beyond Busy Jodie Cook.
How you doing?
Jodie Cook 1:27
Hey, thank you. I'm great.
Graham Allcott 1:29
So you've had quite a big year. And I thought maybe we'd start with a couple of those big things. So there's, you've released two books this year, both to lots of acclaim, which we'll talk about in a minute. And also, you've sold your business. So yeah, we're in May right now, how does it feel reflecting on the last few months, it must have been a bit of a whirlwind time.
Jodie Cook 1:53
Yes, it's definitely been a whirlwind time. I think the main thing that summed up the last few months, and definitely since the start of 21 2021, is just patience and having to be patients when there's a deal going through when there's books coming out when there's exciting things happening. And just always reminding myself not to keep rushing forward to the next step. Because there's no point it means you're always hoping that it's gonna be tomorrow or the next week, and I've really worked hard on not doing that, I think I would have gone crazy otherwise.
Graham Allcott 2:23
So to get the books first Instagram rules, award winning business Book Award winner in your category last week. So congratulations on that. And then also how to raise entrepreneurial kids, which you release with with Daniel Priestley. So, let's talk about Instagram rules. First, what do you think is most interesting to you about how people are using Instagram right now,
Jodie Cook 2:46
the story of how the book came about is actually quite indicative of how people can use Instagram right now. And that's the Instagram rules came about from an email in my inbox from a publisher who I didn't know who said, I've got this book in mind, I've seen some of your writing on Instagram, do you want to write it. And I was just like, sure. And so I think that was my first ever published book with an actual publisher, because all the rest have been self published. And I think even how the book came about is quite reflective of just how you don't need to, you don't need to ask for permission. And you don't need to just bang down the doors of publishers, or anyone who wants to give you a chance, you can just create your own chances. And Instagram itself lets you do that. But just writing and producing and creating means that you can create, you can create your own presence, your own brand, your own audience. And then it means that those people that you thought were really, really hard to find really, really hard to get in front of like publishers, agents, whoever else, they come looking for you. And I feel like that represents such a huge shift in the whole industry. So I'm really happy that that's the story that of how the book came about, and that it's done so well. And that it's won awards, and it's gone down really well. And it's been really helping people.
Graham Allcott 4:04
Nice. And then how to raise entrepreneur kids, it kind of feels like that book is, you know very much you sort of telling your story and putting a lot a lot of you into it. So tell us about that one.
Jodie Cook 4:19
How to raise entrepreneurial kids came about because I sent out a hero. So herro stands for help a reporter out. And it's a web based programme, which is really good for journalists who are looking for sources. And I sent a Heroku out asking two questions. And one question was, how are you raising entrepreneurial kids? And the other question was, how were you raised to be entrepreneurial? And I just wanted to hear some stories. And I thought that I might get, you know, a few back I thought I might be able to write a blog post or two. I got 500
Graham Allcott 4:53
Wow.
Jodie Cook 4:55
I was reading through it. They were just incredible. my inbox just was going crazy. That whole day just full of it was like a big, it was a big British and European audience responding. And then I thought, Oh, it's died down and then America. And then I got a whole load more responses. But the responses just went into so much detail and were so fascinating. And it was, it was almost like people were having realisations as they were writing. Oh, I did this thing, oh, I did this thing. Oh, that could have meant that. And you know, when I interviewed you for the clever tax podcast, creating useful people, and you said, Oh, it's like, and it's like having a kind of therapy session where I'm digging into my childhood and finding out all this stuff. And what it means for now, it was like that it was like people were having therapy sessions of realising, oh, when that thing happened when I was young, that's what led to this, this success I've got now. And they would they were just brilliant. So I had over 40,000 words of stories. There were lots of themes coming out, I think I started to group them into similar ones. And then I thought, well, this is obviously more than a blog post. So I think it should be a book. And that's when I thought, I want to get a partner in this. And that's when I approached Daniel Priestley, my co author, because we've worked together before, I know he's raising three kids all under the age of seven. And I thought he would be a really good partner, because I don't have kids myself. But I was definitely raised to be entrepreneurial, just maybe by accident. But then I thought it'd be really good to have a parent to give the other side of that story. So we put the book into four different pillars, which we call the pillars of raising entrepreneurial kids based on the responses, and that they are entrepreneurial mindset, entrepreneurial skills, or entrepreneurial opportunities, and the parent mental. And then we put all the examples in, we wrote about each of the different areas. And then we Oh, Daniel was actually really cool in that he came with a publisher. So he said, Oh, yeah, this is great. I'll pitch it to my publisher. And then. So then, so then, yeah, we published that through breathing press. And that's been amazing as well.
Graham Allcott 7:00
Yeah. And that also, I mean, I can relate to that, because you also interviewed me for it. And it got me thinking about how I don't really feel like I had, I wasn't surrounded by entrepreneurs, I didn't really have any experience of being an entrepreneur, sort of growing up. But also, I had, you know, weird money issues, which spurred me on to actually want to get money, I came from a background of not having a lot of money. But also then, like, I accidentally started a window cleaning business. And he was also because I just wanted to put good stuff out into the world, the sort of volunteer editor of a music fanzine and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, when you interviewed me for it, it's interesting how you kind of join the dots, between all these different experiences and how a lot of these childhood experiences really kind of, kind of shape you. And it kind of feels that that's something that you've been interested in for a while, right. So with clever tykes, which I love, which is about going into schools and giving young people more realistic views of entrepreneurs, feels like that's something that's really important to you. So what was your What was your own childhood, like in terms of those entrepreneurial role models? And, and kind of, you know, mentors around entrepreneurship,
Jodie Cook 8:15
I think I was definitely put in the deep thrown in at the deep end in every opportunity. I think my I felt like my mom and dad just operated on the mantras of what's the worst that could happen? Or just, you know, what could possibly go wrong? So small things I remember is that other when I was probably like, four or five, if I ever had to book, a doctor's appointment, or a dentist appointment, it would be me who made that appointment. No one would make it for me, it was just right as Chief egpu dentist checkup, you know where the number is, you know what you need today, you know, when you're free. And it would be nice to just call up, speak to the receptionist and book it in. And yeah, it probably wasn't until I grew up that I realised that not everyone does that. But it was just normal. And then another one was that probably from the age of like six or seven. If we ever went away on a trip, it was up to me to pack my own suitcase and decide what I was going to take. And the worst that could happen is that I might choose a silly outfit not be prepared for rain or something like that. But really, it's not. It's not that bad. And so that's what I did. And I think there's a lot of different experiences where I was just given something to do and just got on with it. And there was no sense of me kind of overthinking it or complaining or saying that's not fair. I want someone else to do it. It was it was like okay, this is this is what I do. And then I think that that level of probably like independence and resourcefulness just being instilled in me from such a young age meant that when I when I turned 16 or 17 I was like I want to get driving lessons and I want to learn how to drive and I want to buy my own car. I got my first job at 16. I was just very independent and always looking for how I could own my own life. And then that felt like it really naturally LED on to starting a business when I was 22, which at the time note, no one else was none of my friends were doing it. They were just starting on the corporate career ladders. And they thought I was mad. And they thought they thought it was this huge risk, but I just didn't, I didn't really see it like that. I just saw it as we know what, what could go wrong.
Graham Allcott 10:25
I think that's a great way to think about entrepreneurship generally, but particularly for younger people watching this or listening to this. I just think that's the perfect time to start a business. I started my first, you know, proper business when I was I think 29 or 30. And, you know, that was because the first part of my career, I was working in charities, I was sort of pursuing a career that I was, again, really passionate about. But I think when you're 20, to 23, to be able to start a business at that age, it's like, what is the worst that's going to go wrong, you probably don't have kids to feed, you know, you probably don't have big mortgages and commitments and things like that. It's like, it really is the perfect time, right, it's to start early.
Jodie Cook 11:07
It felt like playing businesses, it didn't really feel like a real, like I've had, I've had jobs before I'd had sold like jobs in hospitality and kind of little kind of side jobs. And then I've had a year on a graduate scheme, which was actually in social care. So that was probably the the most real job I had. But then, when I started on there, and it just, it almost didn't feel real, it almost felt like because everything was so new. And it was going to go into meetings, and even knowing what a meeting was and what to do in a meeting and then signing up clients and then knowing how to, you know, send an invoice or just do all that stuff that business people take for granted. It's like, because there were so many learning opportunities. It just felt like so much fun, that I never really thought of it as like, Oh, is this big, serious thing that starting a business? It just felt lights? And some kind of fun experience?
Graham Allcott 11:59
Yeah. Do you feel like looking back? There have been? Have there been things that because you started your business so young, I have vivid experiences that you just hadn't had that were a disadvantage. And likewise, were there things that you've not had to unlearn? Because you started it too early?
Jodie Cook 12:20
I think when I first started out because the industry I chose was quite new. There weren't very many social media managers around at the time, this was 2011. Twitter had only been around for, like, five years or something. It's just stuff was quite new. So I was spending quite a lot of time on the kind of education aspect of it. So it wasn't just Oh, hey, use me it was no, this is why you should be on social media. And I remember thinking at the time, I'm convincing people, what they should have, what they should do, or why they should use social media. But imagine if I was selling like, you know, air conditioning, or car insurance or something that you don't need to convince people that they need. I remember thinking like, Oh, I'm actually I picked quite a hard route here. It could be I could have fixed something where it's just a no brainer, and someone knows that they have to buy it, and then they would they would choose me. But actually, I think that it was the fact that it was a novelty and that it was new, and that I was this fresh, kind of excitable person who was like, yeah, I'm gonna change the world. Maybe that worked in my favour. Even more.
Graham Allcott 13:27
Yeah. So let's talk about the other big thing that's happened this year, which is that you sold that business, JC social media. So that happened? What was that a couple of months ago? Yeah.
Jodie Cook 13:40
We came about that way. So I guess at the start of 2020, is probably the best place to begin with it. Because Yeah, selling wasn't really, in my head. I haven't really, that wasn't really my plan. And then 2020 was quite a weird year overall, for lots of different people.
Graham Allcott 13:56
It was quite an odd year, wasn't it?
Jodie Cook 14:00
So, during 2020, the business shrank by a lot, because we had a lot of clients in hospitality and travel and events. And I remember kind of sitting there being like, Oh my god, what are we going to do? And being quite scared, like being quite like, everything's changed. And also being really aware that I didn't want any of this fear that I was feeling to pass on to my team, a team of 16 people I was so aware that no one does their best work under fear. So rather than like sharing that fear, I did two things. I basically kept it all for myself and thought I can handle this I'll handle the fear and I'll make sure no one else has to worry at all. And the second thing is I tried to out work Coronavirus, I just thought that's what I'll do. I'll just keep up with it. Everything will be fine. So that worked for it. That worked for us to a certain extent. But I think that's probably the most like burnt out knackered, whatever That that was our last last year, probably around April time. But then over the over the summer, the whole company just had a complete transformation. It was like, the team were just absolutely brilliant, just everyone kind of pulled together, everyone did over and above what they needed to that was so resourceful, we, um, we tried to look pretty much transform the company we did causes we all went remote, we regrowth by a lot. And during the during the whole year of 2020, we replaced all the business that we've lost at the start of March. And then we grew significantly over and above that. And so round about autumn time, that's when I started to think this is this is a team that's really, really capable of a lot. And I think, is possibly capable of more than I have the ambition to take to take it and to take them. And that's when I started thinking, yeah, I think this is the right time, we've never, we've never been stronger our client bases, and they've been never been stronger. Our team's never been stronger, this would be a really good time to sell. And I think I was quite excited by the thought of it. That's when I started putting the feelers out there, we started working with someone who introduces agencies with other agencies. And I just started meeting different agencies. And they're all kind of under the premise of I'm not in a rush. I'm really happy. Everything's everything's good. So if someone wants to prise this agency out of my hands, then yeah, they can, but I'm not. I'm not in a hurry. And I'm definitely not going to be kind of low balled, or, or have my arm twisted, desperate
Graham Allcott 16:35
to sell in that moment or anything like that.
Jodie Cook 16:37
Yeah, so we, yeah, we got a lot of interests, I had a lot of a lot of meetings, a lot of second meetings, lots of companies where it just didn't quite there was something that the chemistry wasn't quite there. And like it was, it was totally mutual, and they would have known as well. But then there were two or three where I thought, yeah, this is really interesting. And I like them. And I like what, what they could do and the plans they've got. So yeah, then we got, then we got some offers, then it was about thinking who was the best? And then we made the decision of who to go with? And then yeah, started down that journey of acquisition.
Graham Allcott 17:13
Yeah, I want to talk about what that means for you in a minute, I just want to just rewind slightly. So you talked before about COVID, being a really, you know, fearful time and you wanting to take on that fear? And so I guess my question around that is, how practical is that from? You know, just from a from the point of view of, you know, surely some of the other members of the team are going to just be fearful, you can't, you can't stop their feelings and sort of take that away from them. So was it was it just about withholding the financial performance from them? Or like, what were you doing to try and own that fear yourself rather than let that seep in elsewhere?
Jodie Cook 17:59
I think that I wouldn't have let on that I was feeling scared about anything at all. It was all like, No, we've got this, we're going to sort this out. And actually, I did believe that that wasn't a lie. It was just that. I don't think I went into detail about how much stuff had drunk at the time. And then it was constantly making sure everyone was okay. We, we actually proved to people throughout those couple of months quite a lot about how they were getting on working remotely, making sure everyone had everything they needed. Even simple stuff. Like if someone didn't have a desk at home, or we started doing like snack boxes that we sent around and wanted to make sure that everyone felt like they were getting the support that they needed. And then I'm not sure how else I got, I kind of took the fear. But it was very much like we were focused on the way forward, it wasn't focused on all this bad stuff that would happen. I'm not I'm not really someone who likes. I don't really read the news. I try really hard to avoid just stuff that goes on around. And I think that probably helped because at the time, there were so many theories, there was so much like, there's no you could, there was herd herd immunity, and then there was this fearful thing. And then there was all these variants somewhere. And it's like, all these little buzz words that fly around and you could spend your whole day worrying about what was going on. So I think me not having that in my headspace just meant I could focus on the business. And I think because I have really, because I've got very inspirational friends running businesses. There were two in particular, it was Rob Garrity, our mutual friend and also Daniel Priestley, my co author for how to raise and grow kids. And I saw how quickly they were adapting. And they were just so in that element. And it was it was almost like they've, they've been born to go through this. And then watching them and watching what they were doing. I was like, Yes, we can do this too. It's okay. There's a way through. So being inspired by other people and then being able to tell my team about it and having all these these ideas about what we could do, I think moved us away from someone's like moving us away from their lives. buying into the visionary mindset. I think that was my goal with what I was doing with them.
Graham Allcott 20:05
Hmm, yeah, away from the lizard brain into the visionary mindset feels like a good, good place to be. So let's talk about the sale. So you sold the business? I'm just curious to know, because obviously that business is called JC social media, it's like literally got your name on it. It's 10 years of your life. And I'm just curious to know, what does it feel stepping away from it? And what's your relationship with it now?
Jodie Cook 20:30
So I yeah, I guess it's been bought by a big marketing group, who were also bought a few other agencies, is that ever going to be rolled up into the same name, so the JC name won't be around for too much longer. But also, at the time of sale, it wasn't me who was running it, I had a really good team of like a manager, team leaders. And so I think I was very much the owner rather than the manager, which meant that there was already that element of separation. And that's one of the reasons why I chose those buyers, because they really got it, they really understood we had some, we had a couple of offers from companies who wanted me to kind of do like a two or three year now. And it just never would have won because it wasn't, that wasn't the setup that we had. But I really loved that the people who acquired us just they just got it. They knew they knew who I was it to the company. And so yeah, I'm still I've still got a shareholding in the group, I'm very much kind of ambassador of the brand. If anyone, I still get people, I think I'll probably be getting referrals for social media work until until 80. And I'm still very happy to pass them over. I know they're willing to have to buy that team. But in terms of day to day, I'm just not required, but then I wasn't required anyway. So it's not, this is not changed life too much. But at the same time, what it has changed is that before, I could have always been tapped on the shoulder for some things, if something really, you know, if someone really needed me, I would have got a phone call before whereas now that's not that's not the case. And that's probably the biggest change just that that part of your brain that was taken with something that could maybe happen is not there anymore. And that's probably the biggest difference to my like happiness and mindset and everything else. I just I'm really enjoying that part of it.
Graham Allcott 22:17
Yeah, so in the days after the sale went through, were you still getting up really early and doing your training and everything else are like did you have a little period of just gonna flop down on you know, and have a lie in and be on the sofa all morning kind of thing. I'm not really I kind of flopped down have a lion kind of person. Doesn't seem like you'd feel this?
Jodie Cook 22:38
Well. So last week, then I went on a like a kind of celebration trip or we went for a spa weekend, we went to a nice hotel and went on nice walks and still trained, of course, but just had like a very definite like we are celebrating this which was really nice. And we've only just been able to because it's it's only just been open in the weeks. So the weeks after I think it took I think it took a little while to sink in. And maybe it still hasn't fully. But it was just I think I definitely took stuff slower. And I am probably still taking stuff slower. And I'm trying really hard not to take in any pressure to choose what's next. And actually, LinkedIn was funny the other day, because I logged into LinkedIn and I got a pop up to say, God, you really should choose your current, you really should fill out your current experience. And I was like, leave me alone. So So yeah, I'm just I'm very much enjoying, taking taking time to just just say
Graham Allcott 23:44
congratulations on getting to that point. And I wonder if one of the things that has helped get you there is your new year mantras. So you've talked to me about this before, what I want you to do is just explain the concept of your new year mantras. And also, most importantly, what was the New Year's New Year's mantra for this year,
Jodie Cook 24:02
the concept of a new year mantra is that you almost decide what kind of year you're going to have. And then you choose a mantra that really resonates with you, but you're gonna just have at the forefront of your mind throughout the year. And it has to be a mantra that really does mean something to you. It's not about some fluffy quote on Instagram that looks good, but doesn't really like speak to you. It's almost like if you go through enough, you will find why and you will think yes, that is it. That is how I want my year to be defined. So in 2019 mine was we are what we repeatedly do, because that was all about getting a writing practice and finishing books and becoming like an author and and just getting you know, like you can say you're a writer and then you don't really write you kind of you're the you're the noun without doing the verbs. I wanted to make sure I was about the verb. And so that was
Graham Allcott 24:59
posted no Actually on just above my desk over there, which just says, writers dot dot dot, right? Yes, it's just two words. But it's such a good mantra because I think there's one of my favourite things is that Peter Cook quote, where it's like, someone goes up to Peter Cook at a party and they sit and he says, what, what do you do? And this guy says to Peter Cook, I'm writing a novel, and he says, Oh, really? I'm not writing a novel either. Yeah, I think the 70 people who talk about talk the talk and don't actually get round to doing the books, right?
Jodie Cook 25:32
Yeah. Yeah. So that was, that was 19. And then 2020 was 2020 was, I am the hero of my own life. And that is a it's the name of a guided journal by a writer called Brianna Weiss. And I just really liked that phrase, because I think it reminds you to put yourself at the centre of things in a really healthy way. And in a way that just makes sure that you're choosing what you do, and you are not being a victim. You're not a victim of any circumstance. And actually, that went really well, because guess what happened in March 2020. So having I am the hero of my own life at the at the forefront of my mind for that whole year, I think makes such a difference. And then for 2021, it was a phrase that Jessica Ward actually has a really good friend. She's the principal of Elmhurst dance school. And she was also on the podcast on the clever tech podcast. How much her when she was younger, that her parents said to her was jump, and the net will appear. And I just love it. And so that was that was it for 2021. Because at that point, we knew we were selling weed. We were kind of very close to signing heads of terms. And I was like, yeah, this is I don't know what the future is going to hold. But I know that it will have fun stuff, I just need to trust that there is a net somewhere.
Graham Allcott 26:51
Yeah, I love that. And I feel like I took a sabbatical in 2017. And not with particularly the idea of starting something new or doing anything different, but just just taking that time to just be out of my business and just out of out of work. For the first time since I was about 13, or something, I used to have a six day a week paper and when I was 13. And it says the first time that I've really had no structure at all. And I found it really tough to avoid just the idea of avoiding what are the lessons of this sabbatical period? Or like, what are the opportunities in what am I going to do like to actually just sit and be and not, and not sort of feel that pressure to always be doing stuff or making something out of it or whatever I I've actually found really tough for most of that year, but it sounds like you're just enjoying that, that that sort of time period to just be present and not be not be pressured?
Jodie Cook 27:49
I think so. I think there's always maybe As humans, we will feel we will feel the need to have that identity and to know, what are we and someone says it's the first question you get asked at parties. And when you meet people, what do you do for Well, what do you do? And a few times recently, in the gym, it's happened where I've met new people there and they've said, Oh, what do you do for work? And I'd be like, I don't know how to answer that right now.
Graham Allcott 28:15
They just say I've retired. I don't say.
Jodie Cook 28:21
I have said I'm somewhere in between retirement and unemployment. But it depends it I guess it depends who's asking. And if you don't feel the, I guess if you don't want to start a massive conversation about it, because you maybe are not totally convinced about it in your own head, then it makes sense to ask it to kind of answer in a more simple way. And maybe say, I'm a writer, or our power lifter.
Graham Allcott 28:47
One of the things that you that you're still doing, even though you've sold the businesses, you're still you're still working and writing, writing for Forbes. So let's talk about I want to talk about this one particular bit, you're at Forbes, which is what successful people don't care about, just really resonated with with these things. So and this is a thing that I love about you is that you you quite often question some of those kind of status quo, you know, you know, kind of prevailing wisdom sort of things. So what successful people don't care about and the first one is what others think. Tell me about that.
Jodie Cook 29:26
For me to give context before stuff as well. My the kind of audience and the people who I write for are very much entrepreneur because I just, I just love entrepreneurship. I just love talking to them. I love like digging into why they are who like who and how they are. But it's a lot about entrepreneurs who want to run a business without it running them. And they do want to question they do suspect that there is this other way, and I think it The thing that I feel like I move away from is that when I first started out in in my own business, and I started going to networking events I would meet a lot of people who are running their own businesses who've been doing it for a very long time, like 40 years or something, they almost, they almost had all this potential of having this really exciting time and this really exciting life and this stuff, but just all these new opportunities and these new things. But what they actually did is they, firstly, they had created themselves a job not created themselves.
Graham Allcott 30:23
The job.
Jodie Cook 30:24
Yeah, the job but the worst boss ever because it was themselves, they also had the same year, every year, every year, which is the same year, it wasn't a different year. And I remember looking at that as a concept and thinking that's not that's not for me. So the writing is very much for people who wants to do it a bit differently and want to reach the things that they maybe never thought they word earlier far earlier. Because I think that you can do that. And I don't think a whole career needs to take 45 years you could have, you could have five different careers, and each one could be 10 years each, and you could be completely different within each one. So the that article what successful people do not care about and the first thing is what other people think, the thinking behind that point, and you are going to have to remind things that successful successful people don't care about, I think the whatever people think is everyone has got an opinion of what you should be doing or what you could be doing. And it all comes from their own references. And it all comes from the place that you that you've kind of the place that you fell inside their heads, and that bit might be completely wrong. So you almost have to detach yourself from that version of you that exists in someone else's head and be so clear on who you actually are, and the best version of you. And that probably isn't how anyone else knows you, it's probably is probably just very different. And I think it's really difficult, unless you really know yourself to hear how you should do that. Or you could do that. Or how about you try this and go? Actually, no, I'm good. I'm gonna do it this way. Instead, I think you have to really know yourself. So that's what that first one is about.
Graham Allcott 32:08
And just digging into that a little bit more, do you feel like there's sort of a version of you in other people's heads? That's different to how you see yourself? And if so, what's what's the different bit?
Jodie Cook 32:23
I think that there's a quote from something, something like Alice in Wonderland and, and someone asks Alice, about something that she did yesterday. And she said, There's no use asking, asking me about yesterday, because I was a different person, then. Hmm. And everyone changes so much all the time, that I feel like, sometimes you let go of people. And sometimes you that's like, they kind of they know a former version of you. And that's not you anymore. Whereas there are some relationships that you know, will last forever and that you really nurture and that you really keep up with. And that's the version of you that kind of changes along with someone else's, what someone else knows about you as well.
Graham Allcott 33:11
Yeah, nice. Although, as you're saying, that is also thinking there's a lot of stuff with you that's very consistent over a long period of time, right, just in terms of like your energy positivity, and the passion for entrepreneurial ism. Like all those things are really constant too. Yeah, I don't know. That one, successful people don't care about grandiose plans, I realised this one,
Jodie Cook 33:38
I have been the judge for a lot of different awards. And when you read applications, sometimes you have to almost strike through everything that hasn't happened yet. And so you have to be able to see past we're going to do this. So we have plans do this, or our projections are to do this. And it's not that you're discrediting anyone elses like really exciting plans of the future, it's just that it has not happened yet. And what we want to focus on right now, for you winning this award is what has happened. So I find myself at mentally doing it when I'm reading through them. And I think that it's really easy to get lost in some in potential and in, you know, if someone's No, you could get this million million pound valuation, and you could get this funding and you could win this award and you could do all this stuff, but it's like the What have you actually done? And I think that always bringing yourself back to what can I achieve right now or what can I focus on right now? I think it helps you stay in the present. And it also helps you focus on what you put in rather than what you may or may not get out of it in the future.
Graham Allcott 34:42
Yeah. Did you tell me once that you don't ever share plans with people before they've happened? Did you tell me Yeah,
Jodie Cook 34:49
I'm really Yeah, I'm fine. My friends tell me off for doing this. Well, it happened. I guess it happened with our kind of mastermind group that we have. Were all of a sudden it was like, Oh, yeah, by the way, I start my business. Because I didn't necessarily say anything to anyone before that. But yeah, I just, I'm so aware that I never want to be someone who is kind of all about their the big hype that never comes to fruition. I like enough to say this has happened. And sometimes if I'm still working something out in my head, or even in the business case, if it could have fallen through at any point, and yeah, maybe if it did fall through, maybe I wouldn't want to look bad. So I guess I think that while I'm figuring stuff out in my head, I really try and keep it in my head and work through it, and then share after that. So yeah, I'm, I'm really bad at that. I don't think I've got it right. And like, I think I'm probably a bit too, too private. With everyone.
Graham Allcott 35:54
Yeah, cuz I guess the alternative of that is that if the sale did fall through, and you needed support from people, I mean, I guess you could just then give everybody the whole back, sir, at the same time. But if you were going to reach out to support and they already knew what was going on, then it you know, you get to the support quicker, wouldn't you? I suppose but but then you could very easily just explain at the time, hey, I've been trying to sell this business has fallen through, I want some advice and go from there.
Jodie Cook 36:22
Yeah. And then needing support is interesting. Because if you sometimes you don't need support, sometimes you just find is that thing that happened? It's not a big deal. And if you're like when we when we speak, we might only have an hour every couple of weeks or a month or so I might do I want to waste 20 minutes of like my precious time with Graham talking about that thing that I may or may not be sad about? And if that's a no then Fine, let's talk about something else. But then yeah, it doesn't like it doesn't matter. And I think that you can almost you can always fabricate the unit support when actually you find and you can just just move on.
Graham Allcott 36:57
Yeah. And I think that's a real defining feature of you as well, isn't it just the sense of autonomy and agency that you have so strongly that you just you don't really need anybody to do what you want to do? And you have you just have an innate confidence in your own ability to do stuff. Is that fair to say? I think I just get on with staffs. Yeah. Yeah, that come from?
Jodie Cook 37:24
I think it comes from being thrown into the into the deep end. I think it comes from
Graham Allcott 37:30
suitcase, packing my own suitcases. Everything. Yeah, I think that needs to be your there needs to be a book called packing your own suitcase or something along those lines. It just is such such a lovely analogy. And also, I wanted to I want to interview your parents and work out how deliberate that was. Or if it was like, I'm assuming it didn't come about because they just couldn't be bothered to pack his suitcase. I'm sure there was a lot behind it. Right. So like, I just think it's really fascinating. It's really fascinating thing.
Jodie Cook 38:02
I think with my mom, it was a lot because she wasn't very independent. When she was younger, I think she wanted to do more for herself. Then she was able to in a kind of in a really nice way. Like she she definitely would say she had a really nice upbringing, but I think she was sometimes like, no, I can do this, I can do it and maybe wasn't given the free rein. So she made a very conscious choice that me and my little sister would have all the free rein all the free rein possible.
Graham Allcott 38:29
And then I'll just summarise these last three things from the fourth thing. So what successful people don't care about minor actions being right and pleasing everyone. I just think there's such such powerful things and really important things to think about when you're an entrepreneur. So like, that whole thing about being right, maybe there's a there's a nice thing to share here is that you, you always message me if you find me spending time correcting people who are wrong on the internet. Right. And I love you for that. It's a really important role that you play by law regretted? Well, I know it's like seriously, I know I shouldn't be I know I shouldn't be doing it. But what did you we met up once? Maybe it was when we met in in Wagamama is a new like, I'm loving your Twitter right now. And I said, Oh, thank you have you had it's so angry? I don't think that's what I should be. And I kind of knew that I needed to leave Twitter before that, but it was probably I think I was thinking about it that day, wasn't it? And then we had that conversation. And I was like, yeah, God, I'm leaving it right now. And so I left Twitter, basically because of you.
Jodie Cook 39:44
Yeah, I think being right does not matter. I think what's so much more important and what's so much harder to get right is knowing when to let it go and being able to let it go and being able to just be like and just go find someone else can deal with that. That's not my battle. Because you can, if you want to pick a focus on the internet, you could do it every single minute of every day. But what would your energy look like after you've done that? It would be horrendous. And we talk quite a lot actually about Twitter. Because I don't think the solution, I don't think the solution to anything is boom and bust. I think there are ways of having a healthy relationship with social media. And perhaps the reason why I think that is because I ran a social media agency for so long, that I had to find that that healthy relationship with social media, because otherwise I wouldn't have had a company. So there's a way of taking the best bits without the worst bits, I'm sure of it. And one day, I will convince you of that, and we'll find an amazing balance, where you can just be happy on life.
Graham Allcott 40:42
Yeah, that's, that's the bit where we disagree. Because I find that particularly the things that push my buttons, which are usually around, you know, in justices and you know, politics and stuff like that, I know that the platforms that they're trying to get me to see more of that stuff, right. So it's just like, I just care about it too much there just to have a healthy relationship with those things that are really angering me. And where the attention economy of Twitter is such that those things are going to be pushed me more and more the more engaged with them. So like, it's just, yeah, you can go cold turkey on it, but then the algorithm figures you out again, after a period of time, that's kind of how I, how I think about it, what do I need to do differently?
Jodie Cook 41:25
I think you need to believe that you can beat it, I think you need to believe that you are better at it than it then you that you can tame that beast, I think there are, there are so many opportunities that I can think of that I would not have had without social media. But I know at the same time, if I'm going to scroll, Twitter, or scroll, Instagram, at some point, I'm going to feel a bit rubbish about my own life, because you just do because you've got everyone sharing all their amazing milestones. Even if you only follow safety for 300 people and everyone posts something once a year. You've got something every single day that someone is doing that you think is amazing. And you compare that that life to your you can you compare that edited showreel to your behind the scenes, and of course, you're going to feel low energy and you're going to feel rubbish. But if you go cold turkey, you miss out on all the good stuff. So there has to be a balance.
Graham Allcott 42:15
Yeah, I'm happy in my little Instagram world. Right now. I'm following loads of loads of baseball and jazz, obviously, but also loads of people who were talking about kindness in business and stuff that I really care about. And yeah, I feel like that's, that's my nice little Escape is place. And it doesn't have the, the so much of the politics Anyway, there's that I do follow a few political people and all that sort of thing. But there you go, I want to talk about your thing of imaginary mentors. So this is a really fun conversation we had. So you have a whole range of all the best business thinker minds in the world all mentoring you. And it's free. It's really cool. Tell me how you do that.
Jodie Cook 43:03
So I'm going to sound like such a loser right now. And I don't care. Because what we will assume is that this is for the greater good. of if anyone else wants to do this, you totally can. You don't need to apply Anyway, you don't need to subscribe, you don't need to part with any cash, you too can have all the best business brains in the world in your head for free. And what I think this involves is reading books, listening to podcasts, getting to know the people who whose values align with yours. And you can probably think of a few off the top of your head right now. And feel like you get to know them and their voice so much that in the future, you can almost ask questions of them in your head, and you will have the answer and it's crazy how much it can actually work. And these are questions that if you if I pulled up Tim Ferriss, I can't call him Tim Ferriss physically, obviously, if I if I tried to email Tim Ferriss and say, hey, what should I do about this book I'm releasing, I'm not gonna get an answer to that, because I don't know him. But if in my head, I was like, hey, what should I do about this thing? I can probably work out what he's going to say. Because I've got this like collection of, of how he thinks and the advice he gives in my head. I really would love anyone listening to this podcast. He thinks that they could give that a go to give that a go into let me know how they get on because I think they'll come to a really good answer just by channelling people. That's what like meditation a lot of the time is channelling your higher power, like a lot of religion or channelling a higher power. Like there's lots of things that, that practice that and I think
Graham Allcott 44:42
doing meditation, yeah.
Jodie Cook 44:47
Well, I guess that's what Well, you know what, in the end, I was reading about the New Zealand rugby team. And the hacker when they perform the hacker, they kind of bang on the floor and they like do their chants. And that is to call Upon the ancestors, the Maori ancestors, and their wisdom and their courage and kind of channel channel that through them, so it's done in lots of cultures in lots of different examples, and I believe that you can do it with business mentors.
Graham Allcott 45:15
So it's Tim Ferriss, the main one, like who the other ones that you wire slides.
Jodie Cook 45:21
It's just, it's, it's people where I just really admire what they're doing. And the certain aspects of them where I just think, yeah, I want to, I want to be more than think when I was, when I was younger, I worked out that I wanted to be more confident. And there was a girl in my class at primary school, who was just so confident, and she would sing all the time. And she would dance all the time. And I just thought, like, how do I do this? So I always used to just pretend to be. And it didn't, it didn't take over my whole life. But just in certain situations, if you know, Beyonce has Sasha Fierce, and that's her character, that she'll go on stage, but she is such a fierce, if I had to stand up in class, or if I had to perform in the school play or something. I was this girl in my class. And sooner or later, I didn't need to be her because I just worked out how to get this confidence in myself.
Graham Allcott 46:13
Yeah. Love it. Jody cook becomes such a face. Yeah, try that one. Well, on beyond busy, and you, as you said to me, before we hit record, I want to talk about productivity. I'm like, yeah, you don't have to convince me. That's good idea. So you've been doing a few a few particularly geeky, productivity hack type of things over the last few months. So yeah, what have you been finding as worked for you around productivity?
Jodie Cook 46:42
I first thought about this when lockdown first happened. And I think I've read a stat somewhere about the number of people who subscribe to Disney plus, and the number of Netflix subscriptions that had gone way up. And I thought, Oh, no, that's not going to be me. Because as you know, I don't have a TV, I don't have Netflix, I don't have any of that kind of stuff. And but I just found myself suddenly with all this extra time as everyone else had. And I think because I'm so because I try and be really self conscious.
Graham Allcott 47:14
Everyone else without kids.
Jodie Cook 47:18
And because I try and be really self aware, I'm so aware that anything can turn into a habit. And I didn't want to start bad habits. So I made myself this is really geeky. I made myself a 30 day challenge. And it's there's a spreadsheet. It's got boxes that I colour it in. And it's got like between six and 10 things that it's like you have to do these things every single day. And it kind of turned into a little game. And at the time, it was like go for a walk it was do a daily calm. And it was the the Wim Hof Method every morning. And it was Ryan at least this many words and speak to an inspiring person was one of them, because I would go crazy from not talking to anyone or meeting anyone. Oh, yeah, I have that. Yeah, you were one of those. Actually, I just didn't tell you that. I talked a little box when we spoke. But yeah, so. So there were between six and 10. And that was the whole of April 2020. And now I repeat it every single month to make sure that I'm just sticking to good habits. And I find that sometimes at the start of lockdown, it was very much like funny around all day and then do all 10 at the end of the day from the morning before you go to bed. But then it started to be like no, actually, I'm going to start my day off with these good things. And then sooner or later, it just became natural and then sooner or later they became habits and now I do it all the time.
Graham Allcott 48:50
So the Wim Hof Method. So there's a podcast that you did with Wim Hof. And I've actually started doing his cold shower thing. Is that your instigation? I'd say I'd seen him before, but it was when we were talking about it. So I'm up to doing 32nd cold showers every day. And God this is like, I can't tell you how I like how unbelievable that sentences to me because i i i live in Brighton and I've never swum in the sea in Brighton because it's too cold. I'm a wimp when it comes to this stuff. And it's it's been really interesting. And I read a lot of the science around it, where it has a lot of really beneficial effects to your nervous system and your metabolism and like all these things are really benefited by this idea of just doing 32nd cold shower first thing in the morning. But what's also interesting is the the way you notice your brains reaction to like it so some mornings, it's like cool. 30 seconds, let's go and it's just matter of fact. And then other days like I really don't want to do this today and you have this whole like inner battle around it and Just find it's a really interesting sort of window into where you're where your level of willpower and self discipline is on a particular day as well. So how did you get into the Wim Hof stuff? And yeah, what's been your experience of it?
Jodie Cook 50:17
I read is the, the half method. And then that's when I sent him a message and said, Hey, I'd love to interview you for Forbes. And then yeah, he got back and said, Yeah, that's great. And then we had a zoom call, he was absolutely crazy in the best possible way. He's such a great guy. He's just, he's just so he's just so genuine. And yeah, I just, I felt like I, I'm rooting for him, I feel like I really want him to do well. And he's been doing what he does for so long, he's been trying to convince people for so long. And now it's, it's just snowballing. It's huge. And so many people are doing it now. So I think that cold, especially cold showers, cold, cold baths, I ice baths, it's all a metaphor for just resilience and handling more than you think you can. Because it's mostly with a cold shower. And you might have found this, the hardest bit of the whole experience is the five seconds before, when you know what's going to happen, and you know, it's gonna be horrible. And then you flip that switch to cold, and then it hits you, and then you kind of go, and it takes your breath away for a second, and then you are absolutely fine. And then actually, everything's better from there. Because you get out of the shower, and you're not cold, because you haven't just gone from hot to cold, you just go from cold to normal. And once you know that you can handle that you can kind of handle anything, it's almost like Yeah, come at me, what else can happen today? Well, I've already done that. So they can't really be anything else that scares me. So I really like it as a way of just just building resilience and putting yourself in forced uncomfortable situations all the time. Because I really like the idea of your comfort zone getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
Graham Allcott 52:00
Is there anything new on your sort of checkbox list, you know, intentions of things that you want to do over the next few months. So you've got the you know, talking to an inspirational person every day, and you've got all these other things that you are taking off? Is there anything new that you're thinking of adding to that, that daily practice,
Jodie Cook 52:20
one of the ones I've kept from the very start is reading every day. But more recently, I've changed it to kind of reading or like listening to a podcast because I started doing more cardio, maybe that's having more time away, and having more time and not having an agency. But I've started running again. And so i'm also going on like the exercise bike and going on a rower. So listening to a lot more podcast, which is kind of weird, because it's not really how I prefer to take in information. But it gives you a new, it gives just a new element. You know, like before you see, before you see a film of a book, you've got the book, and you've got all the characters in your heads, and you can imagine how they are. And then sometimes when you see the film of the same book, it ruins it because now you've got the casting director, casting directors version of what actors look like. Sometimes I feel like that with books, you read the book, and you've got the author's voice in your head. And then you see them you hear in real life on a podcast, and I didn't think they were gonna sound like that. Hmm. And it's different. But that's one thing that I've added in,
Graham Allcott 53:28
you're still doing your articles for Forbes, and I guess in this really lovely space of, of being beyond busy. And I'm really like, working out what's next. So let us know where can people find you? Where Where can people find your writing and everything else that you're doing?
Jodie Cook 53:50
You can find absolutely everything on Jody cook calm, which is JDCOK. I've started blogging every few days. So you can always sign up there. And then I'm on Twitter and Instagram as well. So feel free to say hey, amazing.
Graham Allcott 54:05
Thank you so much for being back on Being Busy.
Jodie Cook 54:07
Thank you.
Graham Allcott 54:09
So they go, Jodie Cook. And just want to say thanks to Jodie again for being on the show for being back on the show actually cuz she was on with Ben in one of our very first episodes. And just always great to to have an hour in Jodie's brain, really, she's just got a very unique, focused positive outlook on the world and something that I need a lot of and she's been a huge help to me actually just behind the scenes with a lot of stuff as well. So thanks and shout out to Jodie and also to Think Productive, our sponsors, for the show. So. if you're interested in helping your team to up their levels of productivity, but also think about leadership, management, delegation, all kinds of other stuff as well. We've got solutions we can help. Just www.thinkproductive.com.
The reason is gonna be short today is because I'm running late, I'm actually going to go and be in a music video. And I will share a link to that once we have the full episode, you may want to just go back and check out the episode I did with Marie Benton, who is the founder of Choir With No Name again, one of the earlier episodes that I did, and I'm a volunteer with choir with no name. It's a charity, based in various different cities all over the country and does amazing work, bringing together people who've experienced homelessness and getting them together to sing. And I'm one of the musical volunteers with quiet no name. So I help all the members to to hit the right notes, quite literally, and to sing in harmony. And we're actually going to go and record a music video tonight, which is going to be the first creative sort of project we've done really since Yeah, since the start of COVID. So first, like a really big moment tonight, and hence why this little outro is really short. And that's all I've got time for I've got to go I'm gonna be late. So all that's left to say is we have one more episode before the summer break, which is next weeks, then we take a few weeks off. So catch be on busy in your feed next week. And then there'll be a little break until the next one and hope you're enjoying the sunshine. Take care Bye for now.
✔ Links:
Jodie’s Website: https://www.jodiecook.com/
Buy “How to be a Productivity Ninja”: http://amazon.co.uk/dp/1785784617
Our Show Sponsors: Think Productive - Time Management Training: http://www.thinkproductive.com
Edited by Pavel Novikov: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pavelnovikovf/