Ethical Business with Dave Linton
My guest today is Dave Linton. Dave is a former youth worker turned entrepreneur, and is the founder of Mad log. Dave started mad log in 2015, with less than 500 quid, and the company has won hearts and wallets with its cool backpacks and luggage. Each product sold allows the company to donate a similar item to a young person in the foster care system. And in this episode, Dave explains why it's so important for kids in care to receive these bags. We talk about kindness, leadership, meeting Richard Branson, and much more. It's an inspiring one this week. This is Dave Linton. Dave Linton, welcome to Beyond busy are you doing?
Dave Linton 1:32
I'm doing well. Thanks. And it's great to be on your show.
Graham Allcott 1:35
And we were just having a little conversation offline about B Corp, which is what you've got in the background. So you're, you're the founder of now a certified B Corp. How does that feel? First of all?
Dave Linton 1:47
Yeah, no, it's good. So we've set out from the start to fix problems. So getting a B Corp certification kind of says, we're not just people who talk about it, but were people who do it. And that's really why we're excited about it.
Graham Allcott 1:59
And there'll be some people that don't know what B Corp is. So do you want to just explain like, what what is a B Corp?
Dave Linton 2:03
Yeah, so I think it's really just businesses that are doing good for people and planet. So it's, it's, it's kind of getting certification, right, that through an audit and become a part of a community that says, you know, you know, we're we're committed to to make a social impact, but also be good for a planet as well.
Graham Allcott 2:25
So the B Corp that we're talking about is your company Matlow. And this just really caught my eye. Like the idea of making a difference through luggage. I just love you to tell the story. So how did it come about? What was the the genesis of the business?
Dave Linton 2:41
Absolutely, Graham, Mallow camera bites at busy stands for mega difference luggage. And it came about after finding out that their 90,000 children and young people in the care system across the UK want to move in every 15 minutes. And most have their belongings moved in black plastic bin bags or plastic shopping bags. And so when I heard that it was on a course with my wife looking to do some more fostering and came across it, and it was right. I've got to fix that. And so mad libs really is the fix to that after going through a journey of you know, to set charity up and run a few marathons and do all kinds of stuff for that or create a business that could generate profit and profit, really make huge impact to kids and care and given them dignity through a gift of a new bag.
Graham Allcott 3:30
Yeah, so when someone buys a mad like bag, you then donate another bag to somebody who's in care, right?
Dave Linton 3:37
Yeah, so simple. Every time we sell one of our bags, backpacks, gym bags, duffel bags, whatever. We give a pack away travel back to child or young person in care. And today, we've given over 52,000 of those and, and that's in six years, and we have currently 14,000 on order. So there's a there's no, that's 66,000 kids will have been given dignity as a result.
Graham Allcott 4:05
Yeah. And, you know, like, so many people that I talked to conversations come back to just at the heart of everything is dignity. Right? Like, it just feels like so let let whatever you're working on, you know, like, if you can just start with dignity, then you're on the right track, right?
Dave Linton 4:23
Absolutely. But we I would go even further back and say that dignity is the byproduct of failure. So you know, we do what we value and what we value is what we do. It's something so important. They just do it. So for me, you know, it's whether it's it's children care for us as a as an organisation, as a business or homelessness for another or wherever it's it's simply that the there's value in in the young people or the children in the care system. And because of that value, and worth them, we treat them with dignity.
Graham Allcott 5:00
Yeah, what do you think is the? How would you describe? Because I know you've been a foster carer before? Like, how would you describe the state of that system, the care system? And how does it? How does it treat people? What are what are some of the main issues in that system that you see,
Dave Linton 5:15
we try and stay out of the system to be honest as a company, because one is you get pulled into a noun, you, you start to have to please the people who are running the system. So we, we, we want to be a trusted voice outside the system, where the system trusses, we're not going to get big, kind of like, you know, double page spreads and papers and big stacks hitting them, that they're doing a bad job. But I think the core thing for me is that there's so many complexities, but the the issue goes back to seeing the children as children, or the young people as young people, is that if you don't see that, then you have people doing tasks of jobs. And the task is we have a child to get placed in this location. And we're struggling. And the accomplishment and the cheerleading in many ways goes for getting the placement rather than the child. So I think just the complexities of that. I think that the core that's, that's there. And it's all value and worth peace again, for children, young people, I believe is key. But there is the care care system isn't a mess. Because you know, there's there are kids that are being left independent, that 16 years of age, being left in unregulated accommodation, government are cleaning their hands off them and saying we're not really. And so there's a lot of complexities around that, you know, the fact that kids are carrying the belongings in bin bags, you know, I mean, it's, it's, I don't think anybody sets out to do it. But it's just through sloppiness and money wasted. On preparedness, we have policy, so think it's been done. But people aren't putting stuff or coming with bags or having them sitting ready where they're needed. As just that. Yeah. So if you take that multiplied over a lot of issues that's been bikes just you know, exploded, then you can really the system is stressed and a bit of a mess.
Graham Allcott 7:20
Yeah, and just for you personally, if you were talking to someone who was saying, I'm interested in becoming a foster carer, like, what, what have you got from that system, both positively and negatively? So what are the what are the things that you found really rewarding by being a foster carer? And then what are the things you've maybe found less? Less good, so,
Dave Linton 7:43
so we, my wife, and I are adoptive parents as well. So that's, you know, we adopted our daughter out of the care system. And then we had some experience in respite foster care. So we don't actually do any foster care. And I and taking the step into my blog meant that I downsized the house, that wasn't the capacity. So my way of helping and promoting children and carers through through doing this. And but I would say that foster is an amazing thing, because you can become a significant dabbled in a young person's life. So I think you'll back to me on story even, you know, I share this quite openly, is that, you know, why did I really care about children and young people in care? Well, it goes back to my own dad died when I was five, my mom was a widow. And it was the significant neighbours around, you know, it was the people next door that that took us in and supported us, they allowed my mom to go out and do a job and took us on holidays with them became kind of non blood, and snuggles in my world. And I think as a foster care, you can play that role as a significant adult in the lives of children and young people in the care system. The challenges of it is that you're stressed. And so there's a support issue. I think often there. I keep I keep saying from a marketing perspective is, you know, if you market out of desperation, you're going to struggle. And I think sometimes the system markets, we need foster carers foster carers out of a place of desperation. But actually, if we were to say it's an amazing privilege to care for the young people who can't be at their own homes at this stage, we'd love to invite you into the story of making a difference. And journeying with us as we show love and growth and impact into these kids. You will have more people I think, sign up. But if you're desperate and the system is being presented as being on its knees and stressed, you suddenly start to go in no matter how much I love and have a desire to do this. I'm maybe not want to do that because that's high risk.
Graham Allcott 9:51
Yeah, for sure. And also, when people hear those stories about the system being very pricy. you drool and things being inflexible and all that sort of stuff. It's like, no one wants to No one enjoys spending time in, in systems that don't seem to listen to you. Right? It's just absolutely not where people want to spend their time. Right?
Dave Linton 10:14
Absolutely. But the other side is, when you're working with a young person or a child, you know, we have that one of our, you know, in fact, the one place where we have still comes to is it the it's a 27, this is single mom with three kids. And it's just like, you know, consistent adults, so it doesn't stop, you know, when you suddenly got get those relationships, you know, it's nearly it becomes family without a beneficiary funnily.
Graham Allcott 10:38
Yeah, that's amazing. Let's talk about the business then. So, with Mad lug, I read that you started the business with 480 pounds, is that right? Yeah.
Dave Linton 10:48
So really, it was 500? You know, the 2020 pious was my first month off my, my kind of Shopify account to run the website. Okay, and the 480 pounds was a deposit for the 40% deposit for the graphic design company to do that brand. And, and so it was literally like, I am convinced this is gonna work. And, you know, even the get somebody working on it for me, was just like, Well, okay, that's 40%, we'll work it out as we go along. And that's been the story so that 480 Pines has now grown into a business that, say, 66,000 kids will have been helped with a staff team of six of us here. And we've worked with some of the biggest companies in the world, like IKEA. You know, we have Shopify as one of our clients who have sent out to Canada, and New Zealand. And so you know, from that, and we haven't had any investment now, we've had a couple of small business grants, but very, very small. In the in the bigger, bigger scale of of things, but no external investors or anybody putting in so it's been a Purewal, let's start really small, keep it lean. And, and then grow and and I used was probably about three years before I came full time, and even taken any salary out of it. It was, you know, a bit of consultancy and a bit of, I think that paid me well for a shorter amount of hours so that I could spend time spending more hours and the thing that didn't pay me was my Counter Strike.
Graham Allcott 12:27
It's fun, isn't it, because my, my business is pretty similar. You know, it's bootstrapped. I didn't have a lot of money, the beginning, I didn't pay myself for a while. And it feels like there's a lot of talk if you you know, if you watch Dragon's Den or other business shows, there's a lot of talk about getting big investments and, and starting businesses with, you know, with loans and other people's money. But actually, there's an awful lot of businesses that just start through bootstrapping and organic growth and just reinvesting the profits until you get to a stage where you know, where it gets more interesting kind of thing feels like, it's like it doesn't get talked about.
Dave Linton 13:02
Yeah, and I actually believe that you have a stronger business doing it the other way. Now, if I was to go into a second business, would I start at that place? Probably not. Because there's the learning, that gives you a better starting place. But I think like for me, I was 22 years a youth worker and never done business before. That no bigrams industry, anything like that. It was simply I wanted something to help me communicate the problem, and bikes. And then I've grown to love bikes and love the kind of learning and but but for me that the thing I've learned is, particularly I would say, I'm very much on the visionary side of leadership. So it's, you know, the rescue is that you can overdesign and keep creating, you know, stimulation, and in May is the creation of stuff. And, you know, not maybe working for people became frustration once you you get to a position where there's no more creating allied and the cylinders on it, of what the organisation you worked with. And so, but now that kind of like you're leading and grew on this, you've got to create your own ceilings. So I'd say 500 pines, I remember there was a social enterprise, working with people leaving prison in Northern Ireland here, and they got half a million pounds of funding to do social business. And nine months into the into it. We both got listed by the observer in London as a new radical one of 50. And we really do in Northern Ireland, they started 500 slides and we started with 500. That organisation is no longer there. It didn't happen after the money disappeared. And the reason being, they went to wrong locations, they had too many staff. They built the business of what they saw five years on, rather than what was needed for starting and I think as a visionary, I had that risk. If somebody had given me half a million pines, I probably have went to the wrong warehouse had too many staff Then too much stock, not learnt the product, and all of that stuff. And I probably wouldn't be here today either so that I'm a believer in the kind of bootstrapped approach.
Graham Allcott 15:12
Yeah. And also you because you're doing it all. It's all with your own money. So you put your at that original 500 quid in, but then obviously the money that it makes, you've made that. So when you reinvest it, it feels like it's your money, too. And then, so when you're doing it all with your own, as opposed to being able to take big pumps with somebody else's cash, and if it goes wrong, well, it's someone else's cash, like, it does feel like you kind of treat it more with respect in a
Dave Linton 15:40
way. Absolutely. Well, I mean, and that is the case, I offer a mad dog, I don't actually own it. So we created from the start purely and we didn't want to ever be seen as I didn't want to ever be seen as making welfare off children's of stories of young people. So what we did was we have created where community interest company locked assets. So that means that if anything ever is sold, or stop any asset in the in the business is given to a charity or social enterprise working with kids in care. So I'm really comfortable with that, you know, as I work really hard, I got a salary for what I do. And, you know, we're making it making a difference. And, and that, but it has that same feel, because for me, right is not the money. It's the it's actually the see and something grew. And so reinvesting it back in doing whatever it takes is an entrepreneurial of wanting to grow something to, to the foundation of which you have right at the very start. And for me, it was no child cicada life. And I've been by.
Graham Allcott 16:40
And it's really interesting that when you started the business, the first thing you did was graphic design and brand, and you didn't know anything about luggage and how to create luggage. So what was the what was the process there? Like? Did you? Did you fly out to China and look at factories? Like how did you how did you figure that out?
Dave Linton 16:57
Yeah, so that's, that's a really good, a good question. The, the place I started with brand is I think as a youth worker, I really understood the importance of story. And when you have 500 pines, you're left with a thing off? Do you get innovative in design? Or do you get innovative and story and, and so my blog to go on, at the Defence Research, I walked shops and stores and looked online at every bike company, I could identify some classic trends that were in every company, the likes of the as you probably see at the back, the one with the pocket just in the front, that's a classic backpack that many companies do. So I thought, well, if if if we can do something classic, the works already done. And I can source them bikes, I'm not having to go and spend a huge amount of time, I can source bikes through companies that will allow me to have quality healthy athletes have that and and get it at the right the right price point. So for me, then the brand was what makes us stand out. And my mandate to the company for the brand was We can't leave at the time we were launching it was all patterns and bags. So like so if you know Phil on and when we were doing research, you know, kids were going pattern bikes playing bikes were not really there. But to bring in pattern bikes, it's so subjective to you know, people's preferences. Yeah. And I thought I can really get so the idea was bring, let's get play on bikes, core colours, and we create the logo, the standout, so the colour was in the logo, which is why we went with a really, really, really bold brand, compared to something subtle. Because that was how we did it. We also at the start, and we do a lot of style, even if we want to create employment opportunity. So we did part finishing of the bikes here. And part of the thing was the risk management gramme of that is that if I brought in, say, five 600 bags of a of a new colour, you know, because you can get them made and bring them in is not an issue that but if I bring five or 600 bags of a new colour, and it doesn't sale, they said is it I have to then devalue the Mad log brand by discounting? So my attitude is if it's classic design, quality, I can sell loses blank bags, actually, with my effort have a cheap discount model of brands,
Graham Allcott 19:34
or doing that thing that I've heard of retailers who if someone brings something like a like I think some of the handbag companies do this and other real like luxury designer goods, where if it gets brought back into the store, they cut it up so that people can't take it. Staff can't take it home as a return or something like that. So they're just cutting a fairly good product and
Dave Linton 19:59
stuff. It's leverage Trying, we're just trying to make it so that we can be innovative in offer. Colour, you know, so we have lots of Friday for the size of business we are. But it allows us to take out risk. You know, that allows us and it also creates employment opportunity. So we have somebody that does that. And we do a lot of cool branding for corporates as well. So we do a lot out in house.
Graham Allcott 20:23
Nice. And then the bags that get donated to the young people in care. So they're slightly different, aren't they? So they don't have the Mad lug logo on it. Do you want to just explain about that?
Dave Linton 20:35
Yeah. So whenever whenever we went in the the duo, I spoke to some business help. And they said, Yeah, you need to check this out. Then I went to a charity work with care experience on people and said, Come is has been bikes and issue, did all my research. And they said, let's get a group of young people or interns and you can do a Dragon's Den with them. So I pitched to them. And some of the stuff that that we came up with was they didn't at that stage mother was on new one. It was an idea at the time, but they didn't want the brand on it that the credit stigma. So the idea of unbranded, they said bin bags were often used in the care system because of being prepared and space. So if you take a box off, backpacks or suitcases, you know, you can't really carry those around and every day for social worker. So there was just the place of being accessible. And they love the term, which is what are kind of why in the business is we believe every child and young person who cares incredible, because they have huge value worth and deserve to be treated with dignity. And they love the value worth dignity line. So we thought, how do we put that on the bag without a ban, kind of like stigma, and, and so forth. So that led to a little pack away. By that opens up into a 35 litre travel bike, and one of the bags opened up has holes 20 of these bikes folded up. So one duffel bag, in the back of the social workers car can either help one child with lots of stuff, or a child that has little stuff, and 20 of those, and an even keel and believe it or not Graham down to the size of the bag, because we were like, you know, well, that's a small bag, that's could be the 50 layers and 100 litre bag. And he says the of the problem is you will reinforce the issue if you go too big. Because the child that has lots of stuff, you can just give them three bags, but a child that has little stuff, and a huge bag just reinforces that sense of worthlessness and nothingness. And, and so that that led us into this specific, specific bag?
Graham Allcott 22:49
And is it right that some of the bags have just like your incredible written on them as well.
Dave Linton 22:55
So that is the bag we get to so when it's folded up, they get to see that you're incredible. Oh, man, and then when it opened up, there's no branding. Yeah. And that has become part of our story. So it's like, you know, what's the size of the business is one growth perspective, but actually, when what we've grown into is a business that has not just providing funds for giving of bikes, but like a nonverbal communicator of care to young people. So the more young people know that my blog believes that your incredible, huge value worth dignity, we connect the people wearing it. And we've seen that as part of it. Like for instance, I'll tell you a story of a time when that happened. There was a youth festival type places 1500 young people at it, we have been selling for about two or three years at this event. And it was simply, you know, we started this this this year, this particular year, we saw over 300 of these 1500 Young people carrying our model backpacks. So it was quite cool. You know, every group of young people you saw the older brands and in our city and but during our during our time, youth worker was coming along and says a ban a bag from a wife. He says love what you do we have a young person who's with us at this festival, who is in foster care. So well. There's no stigma around here. Why don't you just tell them to come down they are Stan choose a colour of backpack and we'll give them a backpack. Just telling these incredible so it doesn't even have to introduce himself to me. He just has to let you know the colour and I'll give it to you for him. And there's no awkwardness, no agenda and this. So the last day the youth worker arrives the island says they have this is Jay and I said Jay what colour bag with you like and he says I'm colorblind that says which football team do you support and it was a red. It was a red bike and I google very get this red backpack a status big smile says Jay Tell me your story. He says they have have been in care for 1514 And years 17 and a half night. And for a two week period, I moved with my belongings 15 times and been bikes. And because placements were breaking die, he says what you're doing is Amir's and what you're doing is amazing. And I remember sitting looking outside the marquee, where we were selling from and seeing all these young people just want to write a tear star come down my eyes feeling like just that emotional when you've given all. And you know, and you're just seeing this kind of growth. I apologise to you and says, I'm sorry, sir, to care. I says, What's truly amazing jazz is that there are over 300 young people in this festival that have chosen to buy madlib bags over other brands. Why? Because everyone believes you're incredible. He came back later that night. And he says with a with a friend and he just remember the smile on the face of the frown. And he says that the other half just had to come back and say thank you and the same thing half year old. Just give me this huge big hug. And then two days after that Graham in in Facebook, we get this message met the of LinkedIn at this event. So blown away by your organisation, I've decided that I'm going to be attend soon. And for my 18th birthday, I'm going to give all the money that I get to the work of Maslow. So the young people can I expect can experience what I've experienced. And so something changed to me is that my blog is this little bag company that's sad is purely just to raise funds give more bags to kids. But actually, we're starting to see in London, Manchester and Belfast and we wanted to see where people and community and society are actually carrying madlib bags, and communicating loaf with a words to an unseen group within society, which is children and care that only get seen by the professionals in the world, because of their underwriting status. And so we have this dream where it's that it's near like that nonverbal communication of which were gruelling, which is why we haven't really we sell test theatres and we sell into, but we haven't really done a big move into those countries, because because that's part nine of our strategy. We want local people to be carrying the bags to communicate that love without words to the local young people in those fill in those times and cities.
Graham Allcott 27:23
And it's just like this exchange of stories, isn't it? Like, you know, in a way you sell bags, but really, what you're, what you're selling and exchanging is these stories and like you say, this communication of dignity and love and everything else. Yeah,
Dave Linton 27:37
absolutely. But then alongside that, you've got to have a business that sells great quality bikes that have great quality bikes that look great people want. And you know, because you can sell a drive once, but you're not going to repeat customer unless it's all of the stuff. And so for us, we put a huge amount of time into the commercials and making sure that's all right, so that we can continue to do more of the impact so that we can have more stories like Jay, but not for us having a stories, his story that's been inspired and encouraged through simply people wearing a bag.
Graham Allcott 28:13
Yeah. So one of the things I read about you is that, like, so you're, I think you've done some Christian youth work before, like, faith is a very important thing to you up so for him, like, tell me about how faith like interacts with like the motivation for this. So like mad like, isn't like it's not a Christian company. But like, Christian faith is a really important thing in terms of how you operate.
Dave Linton 28:41
Yeah, I totally, totally affirm that, that that monologue isn't a Christian organisation or ministry or anything like that. I am a Christian who is in leadership within an organisation like this, and I find that this and so it really drives me but it's simply because there's one one first that really stands out in the Bible is that this is what true religion is to love orphans and widows in times of trouble. And for me, that's really at the heart of what we do and why we do why I do it. And why I've created this is that this is what your religion is the love orphans, and orphans, I believe today or often the care experienced young people who either have lost parents are can't be living at home with their parents.
Graham Allcott 29:25
And how does that impact on you as a leader? Do you think like, what's, what would you? How would you describe yourself as a leader? What kind of leader are you?
Dave Linton 29:35
Yeah, so I think the fifth part for me is it there's a confidence in who I am, and, and what I come to every day, because of my faith. And in the source of my what I believe is most maligned, which is Jesus, but they, you know, so I would say that but also I'm learning to be to understand how I'm wired in many ways. And it's understand I've been trying to be self aware of, you know, the creativity that that I have and some of the areas that don't do so I don't just run away from the stuff that I don't do. Well, I, I press into that stuff. So I got a leadership coach Orion to help me, how do I become a better administrator in my leadership and so all of that, so I think, but I think at the core, the fifth part for me is just the confidence. But I say there's another part and that is, it's been contempt. So I have no desire for for the group super wealth, though, I have a desire to help people. And I think that at the core of that, that's, that's my fear that drives.
Graham Allcott 30:39
Yeah, contentment is a really huge thing, if you're talking to a friend of mine recently, who is just sort of on the verge of selling a business, and we'll make a lot of money from it. But then it's this whole thing of that you sort of take so long on the climb towards wealth, but then actually, it like, he's gonna end up wanting to do another business, you know, after that, because I think he isn't quite clear on what contentment would mean for him, right? Like, I feel like contempt is something that if you can nail contentment, then like happiness is actually really easy, right? Contentment is almost like the more difficult but
Dave Linton 31:21
I totally, totally agree with that. And there is there is a thing where there's a risk with being contempt the G then procrastinate, or you you don't get really content on where I live and the with my family and the what I have and stuff that doesn't consider content, but there's a there's excess content, in the sense that I'm not content with the situation of the children and care, there's discontent with some of the social injustice in the world. And, and so that this content is, is what drives vision, you know, it's and, and that's where I think you can't really talk about fasion unless you're, you're, you know, discontent or dissatisfied, or something is driving you to go, I don't like this. So this is going to drive me to this, it's better than we do today type stuff. So I'm contented my own self, my own place off, you know, I don't I don't get up every day thinking, I got to make lots of money, I want to move hosts, I've got to drive a nice car, I have none of that, which I'm thankful for. Because then, you know, I'm sitting here nearly 50 and go on, you know, I get to get up every day and enjoy what I do. Where I've lots of friends who have been on the kind of career path or and RST is my stage, you know, are sitting with huge mortgages, fancy cars, for holidays, a year holiday homes, and but they are so they're looking at their life and going we've got 25 years before we can retire. And I'm trapped. So I'm so glad that I'm not in that clear.
Graham Allcott 33:00
Yeah, freedom from stuff and freedom from you know, you know, a lot of people with fancy cars have still got loans.
Dave Linton 33:11
And that's not I don't post my beliefs or my few on that, but I just from a pure inner person. And that's, that's what you know, when I get up every day, I'm content with that stuff.
Graham Allcott 33:22
Yeah. And that's it that feels like, like, you've really nailed it, you know, in terms of your own life where you're able to, you know, you're able to then because you because you've because you've almost like tick the box around personal stuff and contentment there, it's like, then you can really put focus on what's the social mission, what's the community problem that I want to solve, or the the thing that I'm restless about
Dave Linton 33:48
over there. But but there is an element where I need a little bit of this content in my own personal world, because, you know, what, what's equally and if you're talking about the balanced life, and, you know, is the is the whole area for me is that, you know, I need a bit of this content, so that I have vision for the other parts of my life outside of my blog, because the risk is that you can be sued this content and the thing you do there that then you just you don't turn up necessarily in that space because you're so content and it just happens and and life so there's an element that is what is this you know, what is my vision for my family for my my other parts my retirement my that there's an element where I probably need a little bit more discontent there to create a healthy balance in many ways, like healthy
Graham Allcott 34:35
tension. There's tension between the restless and the content. I'm writing a book about kindness at the moment. And I've just finished the first draft of it. So there's probably still time to ask you about kindness. And then if you say something profound, although I'll quote you the book, but the idea is it's looking at the role that kindness plays in leadership. it. So I'm just interested in your thoughts on, on, you know, what you see as kindness and maybe some of the leaders that you've known who've been particularly kind or
Dave Linton 35:11
unkind? Yeah, I think as a leader, a kindness is when things happen to you, that you, you can move on past that and show, you know, fact that leave things in the room or kindness is, you know, and I've had to work a little bit at this because it's not my natural default. But it's it's trying to understand the stories that underline the icons, that and the, the way people live. So if you've staff for instance, it, you know, it's trying to understand that there might be something deeper that's going on at home, something that to me as a leader is kindness, it's being able to ask, how are you doing? What are you doing? And I think that the risk of leaders is that we don't often you know, we're so fixed on the thing we're in to do, the jobs, the tasks, the pressures, drivers, that we lose that part. So I have to be really intentional. And to do that. And, yeah, I think, think after me is a huge, huge part of kindness and leadership, you know, it's at the end, because when you're kind you become a servant. And I love that this whole, I love this whole concept, we use it in our marketing strategy, or, you know, never play the hero, always be the guy. And I think if you take that into life and other areas is that everybody that we work with everybody that we leave, we should always be positioned ourselves as the guide. And the kindness of a guide is this person who wants that person to become the hero? So how can I make your life better? How can I help you? How can I empower you? And it gives you that more thoughtful kind of kind of position. So we do it as a brand. You know, we say that, you know, we we guide people to my dog is not the hero of fixing children and care, but the customer is by buying the bike and wearing it. But if you take, if you do take that through, you're right. You do have that, you know, how do I help people? How am I position myself and the guy? Rule within everybody I work, whether it's the people I work with the people I work for, the people I live with, the people I engage with? That's where where I think, and if we had guides as leaders, I think we would have great CAG leaders.
Graham Allcott 37:39
That's it right? It's all about the Yoda not the Luke Skywalker. You mentioned there, the idea that be like being intentional with checking in with people and what's going on for them personally, and taking an interest in that side of people rather than always just being focused on here's my goal. So what does what does being intentional around that stuff look like? What have you tried to do differently? What are the kind of practical steps of that for you?
Dave Linton 38:09
So practical steps is being really, you know, put together. And the first thing I ask people is, hey, how you doing? Or if some that somebody is not looking a little bit dying, or maybe not in the game, or it's the Insan is everything, okay? Before you challenge the stuff for you know, where before, easy, come on, you know, sports coats type roads. So that's, that's where I get I have to, and it's not my natural, you know, my natural A's, I have so caught in the creative space up here. And, and I see what I often struggle to celebrate wins, because for me, the feeling is so big that the wind isn't really a win, because it's only part of the building. So you have to, you know, but part of that self awareness, and then you have to realise that that needs done. Because it's important to the other people that you work around. So that's kind of how I've, I've kind of tried to, to work work on that.
Graham Allcott 39:11
Sounds like we've been on similar journeys with a lot of that stuff, to be honest, I one of the things I've just been writing about for the book is I'll often get these emails, which like, as the founder of the company, people are sending me an email almost as if it's like, can you just like give me permission to carry on with this? Well, they say I've done this thing, what do you think of this thing? And often when I get those emails, I go straight into my natural, their natural rhythm or my brain goes straight into, okay, looking at all this, what's the bit this wrong? What needs fixing, you know, so like, I'll sometimes be halfway through the reply email that's like, this thing on page four needs to change forever. And, like I've got better over the years of like, sort of trying to bypass that bit of my brain and starting with, okay, so start with, this all looks really great. Because actually, sometimes what people really need to hear at the start of that is just approval that they're on the right track. And I jumped straight into some small detail and missed that. And then after this is really great, it's like, here's what I would suggest around this thing, whatever, but just like really giving people that, that praise and that recognition and you know, and this sort of positivity around the stuff that's gone well, rather than just like lasering in on the one thing that's wrong, right, but that's just like, sounds like we're on a really similar journey with it, because it's just not my natural.
Dave Linton 40:40
No. Price. And, you know, yeah, that's exactly where we're, I get to, you know, see come in, and you've got to enter the production side, and you haven't been around maybe for a week, and you go, and there's one day you think, oh, that's just not happening. It's like, before you realise, where it's that kind of learning is, you know, try and how you dress that stuff and think of it so for me, that is kindness as a leader, but it all starts, I think, was self awareness. And not think the thing I'm learning at the minute, is, it's so easy to then just kind of excuse, because you think you're self aware. So, you know, I'm a creator. So just live with me as that. But actually, I think as leaders, there's a, there's an element where we've got to press into the stuff I listened to our podcast, was with Steven Bartlett, interviewing the finder of Jim shark. And, and that he had kind of talked a lot about this where, you know, he got some the, and who was a CEO, and didn't take on the role of CEO and use it as a learning. And it was because he, there was areas of his life that actually he thought I can't do. But he made a choice that he was going to press into the things and learn how to be a public speaker and learn how to, to lead and clear. And I think there's a lot of wisdom and truth in that where, you know, I know, I've made so many excuses in the past for just oh, that's me. I'm so self aware. I know what I'm, like, I try and pass that on to the people around me to then give me a Bible and don't do. Yeah, let's download. And actually, I need to learn how to do some of this stuff. Because I can do some of this stuff.
Graham Allcott 42:34
But like knowledge is knowledge is the booby prize in that situation. So you being self aware, like, if what you're aware of is a thing that you still screwed up, like you still screw up? Absolutely, well, either better to do something with the knowledge and get to the other side, or to not know, to just be self aware, but know that kind of, like big heart big halfway there is the worst place to be. I also read that you had brunch with Richard Branson.
Dave Linton 43:04
Yeah, I mean by that well. So before I ever started my blog, I want nothing and God the day, none of those kinds of things, you know, I was always that person that there was a prize, I never got it. And, and then my blog started and, you know, he suddenly started to get a few awards and things like that. And, and so the Richard Branson came about, by I was part of an accelerator programme in the early days with the equivalent of Northwest and Northern Ireland. And they sent things virgin are in Thailand today in the city and their big red boss, and there's an opportunity to pitch to win 5000 pies, and I've brunch with Richard Branson. And, and so I put in the application to record a video and pets and I didn't get through to the final of it. So I thought, That's really interesting. But what I'll do is I'll go down, and I'll see who got through and see what I can learn how to approve that for the next time. So again, it was that kind of wanting to learn wanting to connect wanting, and if and if if I go down and it's not really that great. I'll go and work in a local coffee shop in the city centre that day. And so I had a dine to the the Virgin boss. And it was kind of afternoon was was the pitch in but they had a number of these kind of like people speaking from the side of it by about different things. And there was a girl I remember and she talked about crowdfunding, and I had kind of in my mind, crowdfunding was never going to be something we did because you know, I couldn't actually risk the failure of crowd funding, you know, no business background no money. It would have just been a big stamp sand deal. You know, we were we've kind of told you this but didn't work. So there was an element we had to do it differently. And by student listen for 10 Emirates was really inspired. And they said, anybody who wants to learn more, just put your name down, and you can meet the Virgin team throughout the day. So I went for putting them down. The girl taking the stuff said, what's your story, I shared the story. And by the time I was waiting for the person to cry from, I ended up talking to a PR person, and, you know, three or four people, and that was a really productive day. And the crowdfunding girl says, you know, what you've got to me as in and if you ever want to do cry fun, it was it was new, kind of like sign up. So I went off and hold it as a first holiday we had taken as a family to France, you know, so it wasn't a lot of money. We had really worked hard to have this, this holiday. On a day until I get an email, I'm gonna tell my wife, I'm not going to work. So you know what, it was a fight that was a Saturday in between the two. And she heads off to get some laundry done at the campsite. And I take out the iPad, and it was this email says, They have chance to get back in the game, have brunch with Branson, all you have to do is pitch 60 seconds to get in. So I take the iPad, while she was my wife was aware of the that I felt like it was brand so I took a video in which 40 to 60 seconds and send it off to then two days later getting things and you've been successful. Somebody will be in touch to tell you what you've entered. And ends up I entered a crowdfunding competition without realising. Oh, wow. And I and I was coming back because it was in France, I was coming back with like a couple of days to get it set up. So there was no new setup. And that was whoever could raise the most money in the first 72 hours of the crowdfunding campaign, won 1000 pints and had a chat goes in with a chance to get me Bronson. So I had no option but to get home. You know, I have done all the networking and go and find and fasters and kept the bait, you know, kind of stuff moving. So I just went on Facebook and says guys, chance to get in the game. Why don't you get behind us, you know, we need to raise as much money as we can the first 72 hours. And we're good at this. And we were 6000 pines five minutes before the end that 72 hours. And as a result, the
two companies came in and was bigger, you know, 6000 pines until they blew us we came third. If one That one didn't raise another penny after they got their 1000 pines, the one that came second didn't raise their total. So they didn't get anything. And we went on to that definitive 24 and a half 1000 pines. And so as a result of that, the crowdfunding organisation that was doing this came back and said, We want to invite you to go and meet Richard Branson on Thursday. So this was Friday will not tell you where it is just another location in London to be at. And that's kind of high. And there was six other entrepreneurs. And they're kind of having breakfast with them. So it was a really special time. And, and actually they tell you never to meet your heroes, but actually, I it was one of those highlights to be honest that there's he's a real deal. I talked a lot about dyslexia and I'm dyslexic. So it was there was a lot of kind of, I just find it a really positive experience. Was
Graham Allcott 48:33
there anything that you said to you about your business that really stuck with you?
Dave Linton 48:38
Yeah, so the, the he talked a lot for me, this is the dyslexia part really stuck, you know, in the sense see it is you know, see your your those things as challenges as opportunities, see them as strengths and superweapons you know, and so I've learned to really kind of push into that rather than seeing it as a disability. So that's been good. And he talked about it a lot of questions I did ask him was like So who's your first hire, you know a company like ours because you're there's always that risk of how you get and and he brought some some wisdom into the other ride, you know, just getting advice from maybe getting retirement. So we built a board up of people like that. And they have since recruited staff there.
Graham Allcott 49:28
And then the last question want to ask you because we talk on this show a lot about productivity and happiness and feels like you've you've built something and been really productive with that and also nailed the happiness and contentment but also work life balance. So I was struck by something you were saying earlier about, you've got to get that you've got to have a little bit of discontent in the personal life and stuff. So like, do you tell me about work life balance? Do you feel like you've got the balance right? What have you learned over the years around
Dave Linton 50:01
that? Yeah, I definitely haven't got that, that that right at times, and probably more than more times it wrong than that I have high effort. You know, the thing is, I've got an amazing museum wife who has is extremely supportive, but also extremely keeps me level grinded, you know, and, and so there's an element where, you know, if it was just done to me, I'd probably be a lot worse at it. But there's elements were just that sense off. And I think that's why, you know, for me, I couldn't do if I wasn't married to my wife, I would struggle, I probably wouldn't be healthy to do what I'm doing. But there's an element where that that will family and then you have teenagers and there's demands their needs, they are that, that force you to take time out and have to be there and turn up and stuff. So you know, I, I can't afford over the years have tried not to use the balanced life because I think that sometimes it looks like you know, it's a there's a pivot point. And sometimes as over here, and I quite like the idea of the blended life, it just there's times where pressures push on, and I'm trying to have that more blended approach. But it's definitely an area where probably I need to spend more time focusing on my own development.
Graham Allcott 51:24
And maybe don't worry, all right, maybe there's maybe all of us, as always, still got something to learn rather.
Dave Linton 51:30
Well, I mean, my own personal leadership coach that I have met with every month, and we've just been talking about where to go and go a little bit deeper into what I do. And that's just this week was the conversation is, I don't necessarily want you to help me be more productive in my lives. I think I do that. Well. It's not helping me be the better leader and all the other stuff. Yeah. And so that's where we're going to be pressing into.
Graham Allcott 51:55
But that feels like a really good place to wrap up the chat. But I'm just really keen. Well, firstly, David, I just want to say You're incredible. And just such an inspiring story. And I would just love people to go and support you and check it out. So how do people find out more about Madla? How do they connect with you Just anything else you want to share as well?
Dave Linton 52:19
Yeah, so there's two ways of getting connected. So madlib.com If you are somebody who needs backpacks or duffel bags or your kids need that for for school next year, is get on check the story. And then there's also mad log your business.com, which is our other side of the business that is working with companies helping companies increase their social impact by helping children in care. And so replacing bikes bound to that maybe as currently they are into a place where that bikes ban gets moved to mod lug and children and care gets helped. So those are two ways that mod log.com or model of your business.com is a great way of helping and then follow us on our socials. You know we are mad log right across Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and so forth and connect with us there. That would be great.
Graham Allcott 53:11
Fantastic. We'll put all that in the show notes as well. And Dave, thanks so much for being on beyond busy.
Dave Linton 53:16
Very welcome. Thanks for having me on your show.
Graham Allcott 53:19
There you go. Dave Linton, I said that one would be inspiring, right. And yeah, just really enjoyed chatting to Dave really took me back actually to my early my early career in promoting volunteering and in charities and on the board of centerpoint, the youth homelessness charity and just a lot of those experiences that I had around mentoring kids in foster care and stuff like that. So really took me back to a lot of those times and yeah, just hugely inspiring. So yeah, good luck to everything that mad lager doing. Thanks. Also a shout out to Emma Gibbons, so a former employee of Think Productive actually and she's now working at Madlug and put us in touch so just want to say thank you, Emma, for putting that on our radar and fixing us up to do that. So yeah, really enjoyed that episode. as I record this looking at Oh, my God, and my cat is doing incredible acrobatics, just kind of like jumping. But it's just jumped from the fence down to the bottom anyway, a big, big distance and he looks like he's fine as he always is. Yes. Coming down now he's gonna come in. Anyway. So just want to say thank you to Emma Gibbons.
Thank you also to Emilie and Pavel, my team on Beyond Busy. And thanks also, of course, to our sponsors for the show, Think Productive. So if you want us to come in and help boost your team's productivity, then just drop us a line. It's just think productive.com And also I have this email that goes out every week. It's called Rev up for the week. It's free and it's basically a productive or positive idea for the week ahead and it goes out every Sunday evening at four by 5pm UK time. So if that's of interest, just go to Graham allcott.com. And if you go to Graham allcott.com, forward slash links, you can find out about everything else I'm doing as well. We've got a really big one coming up. In a couple of weeks time, we have the one and only Monica Aldama. She's the coach from the hit Netflix show cheer, which I've really enjoyed. Actually, I hadn't heard of it. And then I was sort of passed the book and checked out the first episode and was just hooked immediately. Like, it's such a great show. So go and check out cheer on Netflix, if you haven't already, in preparation for the next podcast in a couple of weeks time. Go binge watch it like it's really addictive. It's great Telly really, really good. It's from the makers of last chance here if anyone's seen that, which I also really loved. It's kind of an American sort of college sports thing as well. Really cool. So yeah, Monica, Dan was going to be our guest in two weeks time on the podcast. And yeah, that's it. I'm yeah, I'm kind of coming to the end of book edits, and all of that stuff. So it's good to just kind of get this book over the line. And over the next few months, I will share with you where you can preorder it. It's frightening to say that before it's done, but I'm getting there. And it's been a long slog. This book, it has to be said, I think seems to be my last book for a good while I think. But what I'm really proud of and I'm really, really excited to share it with you when it comes out. Anyway, all of that is to come. But yeah, suffice to say my my life is going to calm down a bit once the book is out of the way. And yeah, looking forward to being a bit less beyond busy myself. But yeah, see you in two weeks time with coach Monica. Until then, take care bye for now.
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